User talk:Celtic1

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[edit] Faith n' Begorrah

Welcome!

Hello, Celtic1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Karmafist 22:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Cheers, thanks KarmaFist :)



[edit] The Famine

But was it deliberate? I won't deny that the laissaiz fair attitude of the British made matters worse. But to say it was deliberate implies that this was a planned event, when in fact it was simply a man-made disaster waiting to happen turned into a catastrapohe by nature. The roots of the Famine go far deeper than you would like to think, and neither were all British people the villians you would like them to be. Finally, what's with this "Off my island" line? Fergananim 00:24, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it was a deliberate act to keep food from the Irish after the famine hit. See my comments concerning had this happened in London, or anywhere else in England. The people would have been fed. The Irish were intentionally starved, just like the Turks killed Armenians, and the Nazi's to Poles and Jewish. The get off my island line speaks for itself. Celtic1

Actually, it dos'nt. It just sounds rude and thick, simply because someone else expressed a view you do not agree with. And as regards something like this happening in England, you're wrong; they did'nt need to distribute food to the poor and needy. That's what transportation to New South Wales was for. If you don't think that the English elite treated their own lower classes as bad as they did us, you don't know much English - or British - history. And as regards your username, I hope you know that the Irish were not Celts. Cheers.Fergananim 00:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I found your idiocy charming -- next time you decide to go with ad hominems such as calling me stupid, "Thick", then you might want to check your spelling genius. "dos'nt"... yes, I am the rude and thick one. haha Thanks for the laugh wee one.

Don't use the term "us", as we are not in any way related. As for your bizarre logic concerning New South Wales -- you've proved my point that the English elite would not allow their own to starve! Thanks for that. The English government allowed many of the English to move to their colonies, and provided ships in order help in this endeavor. Their are no tales of coffin ships of English settlers to New South Wales are there? The Irish were left to die in Ireland like fleas.

The Irish are not Celts, that's a good one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

I bet you are basing this on the Trinity College genetecists that said there was no widespread Celt invasion 2,500 years ago. Wow... That ignorance of yours is astounding. Let's repeat, off my island! Celtic1

Why are you full of such self-loathing?

It is clear that you hate being Irish; as your views on the deliberate genocide against the Irish people are illustrative of how subservient you are to foreign invaders. Why not just get it over with and leave the nation? Celtic1

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fergananim"

I don't understand, how is retrieving that gem of a comment make your untenable position any better? Celtic1

[edit] A true philanthropist issues a politically correct refutation of a playground tormentor

Well ... where to start? First of all, if you can refute any of what I have said, please let me hear it. Questioning my abilities is fine for the playground but it don't cut the mustard here.

Neither did I call you thick. I called your comments rude and thick.

There was no Celtic invasion, either 2,500 years ago or at any other date. Forget genetics for a moment, archaeologiests have being saying this for years. There simply is no evidence for it. There is no denying that there was small migrations and movements of peoples over the years (the Scots, Deisi and Attacotti into Britain, the Brigantes, Dommainn, Belgae and Menapii into Britain and Ireland. But an invasion? Sorry mate, it just does not seem to have occoured.

Thanks for mentioning the Celts link, as its useful and help proves my points:

  • 1 - "Today, "Celtic" is often used to describe the people and respective cultures and languages of several ethnic groups known as Modern Celts in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Cornwall ... Man ... Brittany ... Minho ... Galicia ..."'

Note the use of the word today, and the term Modern Celts. This indicates that this is something that is of modern provenence, and not historical. As I'm sure you know, we never once in our history referred to ourselves as Celts. The association came about because Irish was shown to be a member of the same language family as the Celts, and we did indeed share a very similar culture. But we were not Celts.

I'll put it this way. You're writing in English; does that mean you are of Anglo-Saxon descent?

  • 2 - "... who are claimed to share many of the same common traits in their cultures and/or languages as the original Celts but whose ancestors in ancient times were not necessarily considered related to them by outsiders."

The original Celtic nations inhabited much of what is now France, Belgium, western Germany, Switzerland, western Austria, and northern Italy. The Romans in the years just prior to the successful invasion of Britain refer to Britain and Ireland specificly as being beyond the lands of the Celts. Like ourselves, our cousions over in Britain claimed to be indiginious, not recent invaders. And once again, never in our history as a Gaelic (not Celtic) civilization did we ever claim to be Celts.

  • 3 - "(Tribes or nations, such as the Belgae, Atrebates, Menapii, and Parisii, from mainland Celtic regions, including Gaul and Belgium, are recorded as having established presences in Great Britain and may have reached Ireland. Some archaeologists suggest, however, that the continuity in the British archaeological record is such that the numbers involved must have been small.)"

Now as we have seen, there were tribes or nations who we could call Celts (or of Celtic descent) living in Ireland, such as the Brigantes, Dommainn, Belgae and Menapii (in fact the Belgae and Dommainn were two different names for the same people), all in the Leinster/north Munster region. But as the archaeological evidence has shown, the numbers were pretty small. Think of it less than a full-scale invasion with a total population replacement, to more like a change of rulers, with one set of kings being replaced by others. Pretty much the same thing that happened with the Vikings and Normans, who, for all the trouble they caused, were both in time pushed back to the margins of the island and have left only a fairly small genetic trace on the island's population.

So, if anything, its you Celts who should be getting "off my island". After all, we were here first. Go back, read the Celts article, especially the paragraph Development of the term "Celt", and understand the discussion before putting your foot in your mouth.

Now, if you can actually rebut what I have written, fine. That's what wikipedia is all about. Spreading knowledge. Not ignorance, bigotry or racisim. I don't know where you are coming from with all this stuff about self-loathing and ignorance; on the contrary, I think I've demonstrated the reverse of the latter and no concievable trace of the former. Deal with the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be. Saves a lot of tears, believe me. Slan go bfhiol! Fergananim 11:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

What abilities wee one? I am off on holiday soon, so will not have time to reply to your mendacious claims above. Again, please take the next Ryanair flight and join your beloved BNP comrades. Slan! Celtic1

Not claims - facts. And you not being able to refute a single one of them demonstrates that. Take all the holidays you need; dealing with reality is easier that way. Cheers. Fergananim 17:51, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

None of your silly claims are facts. It is telling that your "life" is so far removed from reality that you think people do not have better things to do with their limited free time than to refute oddballs that post too much on Wikipedia. A more sane person would have concluded that your strange "facts" are not high on my priority list at the moment. In due time, net' boy. Celtic1

[edit] What should be the final word

"Well ... where to start? First of all, if you can refute any of what I have said, please let me hear it. Questioning my abilities is fine for the playground but it don't cut the mustard here. "

How could you "hear" it, if it's typed? As for the playground comment, what does that even mean? People debate about Ireland being Celtic on the playground, and if so, where is this bizarre playground you write of? Anyhow, seems like you have a huge chip on your shoulder, and were abused as a kid at the playground, so you have taken your sad rage to the net'. Always the choice of winners!

"Neither did I call you thick. I called your comments rude and thick. "

Where was this distinction? Stop backpedalling.

"There was no Celtic invasion, either 2,500 years ago or at any other date."

Who said there was? Not me. I never claimed a full scale Celtic invasion.

"Forget genetics for a moment, archaeologiests have being saying this for years. There simply is no evidence for it. There is no denying that there was small migrations and movements of peoples over the years (the Scots, Deisi and Attacotti into Britain, the Brigantes, Dommainn, Belgae and Menapii into Britain and Ireland. But an invasion? Sorry mate, it just does not seem to have occoured. "

Again, where was this claim of a full scale invasion? Sorry mate, but your entire thesis is founded on a debate with someone else apparently. I certainly never made such claims. What I will claim is that the culture of Ireland and the people is Celtic and a melange of others.

My name is for Celtic Football Club, not the people! That is another of the false pre-suppositions that you made.

"Thanks for mentioning the Celts link, as its useful and help proves my points:"

It proves the point you were making to someone else, not me, as I never made the claims you attribute to me or are lamely attempting to refute. The links prove my point that the people of Ireland are indeed in the Celtic realm of peoples due to the pervasive cultural influence.

"*1 - "Today, "Celtic" is often used to describe the people and respective cultures and languages of several ethnic groups known as Modern Celts in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Cornwall ... Man ... Brittany ... Minho ... Galicia ..."'

Note the use of the word today, and the term Modern Celts. This indicates that this is something that is of modern provenence, and not historical. As I'm sure you know, we never once in our history referred to ourselves as Celts. The association came about because Irish was shown to be a member of the same language family as the Celts, and we did indeed share a very similar culture. But we were not Celts."

Same language family, and same culture would mean the Irish are part of the Celtic world. You are Anglo-Saxon, so why do you say "we" when referring to the Irish?

"I'll put it this way. You're writing in English; does that mean you are of Anglo-Saxon descent?"

I'll put it this way, you've made a completely silly point. The Irish were conquered by Anglo-Saxons, and had genocide perpetrated against us in the mid 19th century so that most of the Gaelic speakers either died out or were forced to leave. Sort of like the Yiddish language in Central and Eastern Europe after the genocide there against the Jews.

"*2 - "... who are claimed to share many of the same common traits in their cultures and/or languages as the original Celts but whose ancestors in ancient times were not necessarily considered related to them by outsiders."

The original Celtic nations inhabited much of what is now France, Belgium, western Germany, Switzerland, western Austria, and northern Italy. The Romans in the years just prior to the successful invasion of Britain refer to Britain and Ireland specificly as being beyond the lands of the Celts. Like ourselves, our cousions over in Britain claimed to be indiginious, not recent invaders. And once again, never in our history as a Gaelic (not Celtic) civilization did we ever claim to be Celts. "

The Romans named Scotland, Scotti, which means "land of the Irish", and various Roman historians have described the Scotti or Irish as Celts.

Where is your proof of this, "And once again, never in our history as a Gaelic (not Celtic) civilization did we ever claim to be Celts." ?

I would like some form of evidence from you to back up this claim. Find a document that has Irishman writing that they are Gaels and not Celts.

I never said the numbers were large -- "But as the archaeological evidence has shown, the numbers were pretty small."

This proves that there was a Celtic influence in Ireland, thanks for that. Also, how about the Milesians, the Irish kings that came from Northern Spain, Basque country where Celts were? The Milesians were the fifth and last Celtic people to invade and settle Ireland. Ireland is Gaelic and Celt, and these two are not incongrous with the other.

"So, if anything, its you Celts who should be getting "off my island". After all, we were here first. Go back, read the Celts article, especially the paragraph Development of the term "Celt", and understand the discussion before putting your foot in your mouth. "

More rubbish from you. How can I put a foot in my mouth when I am typing? If you are going to use cliches, as those of subnormal intellect usually do, then at least get it right.

This anti-Celtic xenophobia of yours is astounding, and you really need to take that first jet over to meet Nick Griffin and the rest of your pals at the BNP.

"Now, if you can actually rebut what I have written, fine. That's what wikipedia is all about. Spreading knowledge. Not ignorance, bigotry or racisim."

The last line really clinched it for me -- "Not ignorance, bigotry or racisim" -- what is "racisim"? If you are going to pull that tired, self righteous type of malarchy then at least spell it correctly. It is amazing how you have parroted the talking points of the far left perfectly, and the arrogance coming from you is astounding.

Accusing people of "ignorance, bigotry, and racism" is the hallmark of the weak and the sad, especially when this debate has nothing to do with two of the three. The only ignorance here is yours, and you are no doubt a University student that has been fed enough propaganda to last you a life time. Keep telling yourself that you are an independent, critical thinker.

I am glad to have finally had the time to refute your lunacy. Your entire debate was based on things I never even claimed.

"I don't know where you are coming from with all this stuff about self-loathing and ignorance; on the contrary, I think I've demonstrated the reverse of the latter and no concievable trace of the former. Deal with the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be. Saves a lot of tears, believe me. Slan go bfhiol! Fergananim 11:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)"

"Saves a lot of tears, believe me."

I do not for one moment have trouble believing that you have cried quite a bit in your time. Most likely due to the playground incidents of your youth you made an inference to to at the start of your bizarre screed.

What is your point exactly, and why did you decide to go on this insane crusade that you can't win? I have proven my points, although I do not feel like a winner, as only losers get into heated debates on wikipedia. I have wasted twenty minutes of my life that I will never get back. The worst thing is I actually responded to you. Celtic1

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