Talk:Celtic Wicca
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This article doesn't actually talk about Wicca at all. Perhaps it should be redirected to "Celtic Spirituality" or somesuch. —Ashley Y 23:47, 2005 Feb 20 (UTC)
Is this page a Copyright violation??? Nowhere do I see a statement that it was copied from the referenced other website with the authors permission???? --137.111.13.34 12:08, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Exactly; this looks like it was just copied from http://www.greenspirit.org.uk/resources/CelticSpirituality.htm wholesale. Even if they did give Wikipedia permission (and I don't see the slightest reason to assume they did), we'd need almost a complete rewrite to make this correspond to NPOV – and be topical! I'm just going to delete the material from the other website. QuartierLatin 1968 20:20, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Synthesis or Syncretism? Indeed it seems to take entirely something from a single source; and at face value... i.e. Modern Druidry, Wicca, Shamanism, and certain types of Christianity, classified as Celtic Sprituality (Wicca is not, Shamanism, strictly speaking, is not, certain types of Christianity, is vague, and Modern Druidry, for the most part, I dispute that it has much Celtic beyond the name)
In addition, there are unsubstantiated claims (lots of weasel terms) that need references in the article. The Jade Knight 07:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] British Isles
The term British Isles is not longer accpeted if you are referring to th island of Britian and Ireland combind then please refer to it as Ireland and the UK or the UK & Ireland —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.41.130.169 (talk • contribs) . (Moved from article by Gurch 14:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC))
[edit] POV Flag
User:Redeagle688, you flagged this for POV concerns, but did not state what the issues are. Please explain. --Kathryn NicDhàna 20:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- The article is rife with unsourced statements along the lines of "Most of what is believed to be 'Celtic' in these traditions is actually based on Romantic fantasies, not actual Celtic traditions.". Redeagle688 22:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, it's true; but yes, the tone could be more NPOV, and it makes sense to cite sources so it's not only true but verifiable. I can list Kelly and Hutton, for a start, though someone with the books at hand will have to add page numbers. I'm not sure if any of my Celtic books even mention Wicca, but I'll take a look around. However, some of this is like asking someone to prove, for example, that Wicca is not Native American. Or Hindu. Even though Gardner took bits and pieces from those cultures as well. --Kathryn NicDhàna 23:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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- OK, I think this is adequately sourced now. For the sake of process I'll leave the POV flag up for now, so some other Wikipedians can give it a look-over. I think it can be de-flagged, though. --Kathryn NicDhàna 00:32, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What derived babble!
Generally, wikipedia is an excellent and reliable source of information. Admittedly, this is the first time I have witnessed such an INCORRECT definition or answer to a subject. First off, the modern Celtic Wiccan practice predates the Gardenarians. A simple search of the internet should find you references of Celtic Wiccan practice in the 1890's. This predates the modern "Western" (north America, et al) concept by over 30 years! Witness Gardene's own claims and statements about some of his origins in the what is now called the "Brittish Isles."
Yes, the article is correct in its claim that many of the Traditional Celtic beliefs do not coincide with modern day Wiccan precepts. But, what it fails to metion is that these differences are trivial, at best and do, indeed, fall under the realm of Wicca. One such example would be in the attribution of the elements to the four directions (cardinal points). Wherein, the average wiccan views a: air-east, fire-south, water-west and earth-north concept, a Celt views the air as north and the earth as east. An easy way to explain why is to simply look at a map and determine for yourself why this would be correct. Basically, I could list about 2 dozen reasons, but, I feel that is not appropriate. Another difference in belief systems is that from the time predating Alaister Crowley, the celtic believed in the three fold rules for most everything. In the Wiccan rede poem, it is stated, "cast the circle and cast it thrice" The Traditional celtic faiths did cast a circle... usually around a "great Oak" and the circle was cast three times, each in decreasing circumfrence. More proof of Celtic Wiccan practices? Look at the documented evidence of Witch trials, witch executions, tortures and burnings in Scotland and Ireland that date back as early as the 1300's! Yes, modern day eltic Wiccans can trace their system of beliefs back to those dates. Logically speaking, if you were a 14th century Irish pagan, who would likely be your deity? A Celtic or Roman Goddess? A Celtic or Egyptian God? It is those same gods and goddesses that are recognized to this very day!
To grant some degree of creedence to my words... and please, understand that I've no intentions of boistering myself. I merely desire to make an attempt at helping others to understand and correct - to some degree- this misinformation... I have been a Celtic Wiccan Practitioner for over 20 years. Currently, I am a Celtic High-Priestess, duly ordaied by the state, in which I reside and the Celtic Witan Counsel. These titles were not "self-appointed, but conferred after years of extensive study, research and practice.
If the statements of thsi article were true, only one thing could be comfrimed: Modern Wicca is just as guilty as the christians when it comes to stealing holidays, traditions and practices: The Ritual Circle, the Wheel of the year, most elemental ssociations, the notion of the circle of life and that time is circular and not linear, the sabbats... all find their wiccan roots in ancient celtic tradition.
Hey, but don't take my word for it, simply pick a Sabbat (Wiccan holiday) at random and do a little bit of research about it. Take a wild guess where most of the common day traditions originated?
The facts are: The Celtic Isles, over the course of the last 2,000 years or so have practiced 3 main religious belief systems: That of the Druids, many of whom carried their beliefs into what we now call Celtic Wicca and the third is Christianity.
One last bit of proof - look to the Catholics and to St. Brigit. In order to convert the pagan population, they incorporated the Celtic Goddess Brigid into their mythology as a Saint. From her, the Christians derived their modern day wedding ceremony and nomenclature: the words, phrases and traditions: Bride, groom, tying the knot, the wedding band (a circle), feeding each other the wedding cakes and so many more things... ALL Brigid!
Please forgive my rambling, but this article did bother me a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MorganLeFaye (talk • contribs) .
- Greetings, Morgan. Yes, I (and many other editors) am aware that the article is not in conformance with what you may have been taught under the auspices of your religious training. However, many of the claims that you make, while religiously significant, are simply not verifiable in a historical context. One statement that you made derisively that I must agree with is "Modern Wicca is just as guilty as the christians when it comes to stealing holidays, traditions and practices." Yes, we have stolen holidays. I encourage you to examine the books of Ronald Hutton for a starting place to verify that claim. Justin Eiler 04:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
