Talk:Celine Dion/Archive 1

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Tracy: COOL!i love Celine since ever,since when i was 7 or 6 years old!I am a biggest fan of her.This is my site of Celine: - http://groups.msn.com/celinedion5 or my forum http://celinedion5.forumer.com Well I am Tracy 13 years old from Spain,Barcelona.I love you CELINE!!! Up up Celine you go woman!!I will see you in A new day...In 2007 Celine!!!!!!!!!She have a talented voice and the unic in that world,she is the best and more than other woman who are singer,like Mariah Carey,etc...Her voice is the only one


Other girl: Celine dion is a seperadist!! she is from canada..and she is not proud to be...as far as i am concerned she should pay a little more attention to her country..she is one of my favorite singers..but i am really starting to hate her,not her music but her..she seems like she does not care for Canada anymore!!!i liked the article too because it gives alotof insishgt on alot of different things on celine dion..i think there should be more personal comments in it though..and not just bad ones either...more of the good ones!!!


I think the article is ok, but it could be enhanced. Does anyone care to write about Dion's life. There is minimal biographical information in the article. We need to tell about her 12 brothers and sisters, how she was almost peverty stricken and how she is now one of the best selling female pop artist. Journalist 23:21, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

why is everyone so much against celine dion.when talking about the guinesse world record book they emphasised more on the u.k aspect where madonna has command.madonna's total sales according to her official website has beed around 120 million copies which include her single sales as well.and regarding the sales of miracle the 2 million figure was initial figure and since then it has sold more even received a platinum in the u.s. about #1 singles madonna and mariah carey has had only those #1 singles which they have in u.s. and u.k. but celine has had different #1 singles in different countries and if you calculate them then she has more than 19#1 singles worldwide.and regarding the 175 million sales world music award must have cross checked it before anouncing the figures.she was #1 for more than 50 consecutive weeks in france madonna doesnt have such record even in U.K. and above all a singer should be known by her singing talent and celine is extremely ahead of madonna.so whatever it be celine dion is supreme.miracle was a children album so it was supposed to sell like that but madonna's prime albums dont sell well now. More of her French singing career needs to be noted. I mean, an NPOV description of the beautiful Pour que tu m'aimes encore has to be integrated, or at least the album that it was on. Mike H 03:07, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)

-Its good that you note this - I should like to point out that her people say even the numbers they publish are low. This has to do with a lot of French speaking countries, not really having the ability to track the sales of the records. Particularly the french ones. Her french sales alone could lowball her by 50 million. I mean Im no fan, but I am fair.--Meanie 03:02, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

Canadian vs. Quebecoise

This Canadian saw the Céline Dion article and immediately recognised the designation as politicised. You don't see the article on Tom Petty begin with "Tom Petty is a Floridian musician." Provincial designations are used in international fora when somebody has a political agenda. I actually think this line threatens the NPOV of this article. User:Rhombus Fri Jan 21 04:23:12 UTC 2005

I'm reverting the anon's changes to this article until he can justify why she can't be called Quebecoise. I don't see the "Celine is a federalist" argument to be sufficient; she was born there and she is of the culture, which makes the specific label very accurate. Mike H 06:56, Nov 6, 2004 (UTC)

From what Ive heard she isnt a federalist although wishes Quebect to still be apart of Canada. She made a statment on the issue at the World Expo in Seville (beginning of the 90s). User:Ise

Even though she does cherish her Québec roots and francophone upbringing, she is clearly a Canadian singer at first. I do understand that some people want to call her a Québécoise but wikipedia is not a place to score cheap political points ( faire de la petite politique ). I guess we should try to work on some compromise. Any ideas? VicFromTheBlock

Whether she is a federalist, nationalist, sovereigntist or Dadaist doesn't matter. The fact is that she is ffrom Canada. She is a Canadian citizen. The article must identify this in some way. I have no objection to adding a subnational jurisdiction to the identifier, e.g., "Tom Petty is a musician from Florida, USA" or "Celine Dion is a vocalist from Quebec, Canada", but it is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia to remove the identification of the country from which a person comes (as User:Liberlogos has done often in the past) in order to promote the political ideal of separatism. Ground Zero 15:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Album Sales

Discograhy

Guys I think that we should start a breakdown of how much each of her albums have sold and that way we have proof of how much she has sold instead of fans putting inflated figures. I love Celine Dion I really do but I also like accuracy and some albums just seem to far off. For example where did A New Day Has Come sell the additional 9 million copies outside of U.S.? Look

A New Day Has Come- According to Discography 12 million

United States 3X Platinum- 3 000 000

Canada 6x Platinum- 600 000

Europe 3x Platinum- 3 000 000

Austriala 2X Platinum- 140 000

Total: 6 740 000 I know the whole world is not these places but they are a major part! And thats not the only album all of them seem too big for example The Colour of My Love 14 million outside of United States where?

Celine was given a World Music Award this year for 175 million albums sold, but she is not the highest selling female artist ever, that is about as many albums as Madonna has sold and once you add in world wide single sales Mariah Carey and Whitney Houson have sold close to as much as Céline. And Madonna has sold an estimated 250 million records world wide according to Warner Bros. Records, more than Celine's 200 million or so once you add in french album and single sales. I'm taking the "highest selling female ever" off.

P.S. The World Music Amards' "Diamond Award" just certifies that an artist has sold 100 million records world wide, Mariah Carey was the first artist given the award last year ;) The 175 million figure for albums sales was just an inflated number thrown out there by her husband and record label to promote her next album anyway. I will post several sources if requested ;)

OMG those world wide sales for the albums are INFLATED!!! MadonnaFan 23:41, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

From Sony Music: Celine has sold over 160 million records, so 175 million albums is wrong, she has most accurately sold 145-150 million albums and around 30 million singles world wide... [1] MadonnaFan 21:47, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why dont u post sources? and why is a madonna fan so intressted in Céline Dions sales? User:Ise

Because I don't like it when people say certain artists have sold more than Madonna when I have proof they haven't ;-) Also, I did post a link ;-) MadonnaFan 00:35, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Diamond Award at the World Music Awards just certifies that an artist has sold 100 million albums world wide, Sony fabricated the 175million figure to go along with it! http://www.worldmusicawards.com/diamondaward.html MadonnaFan 20:57, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Céline Dion sold around 175 million records around the globe, making her the best-selling female recording artist of all time, according to Billboard/SoundScan and Sony Music. [2][3] 151.26.47.35

Please stop posting the BBC link, which predates the award and is little more than a copy'n'paste of the Sony Press Release.

The Sony site (which admittedly parades a wide range of contradictory and unsubstantiated figures) clearly states that she has sold 160 million records (as of November 2004). That citation is more authoritative than a pair of speculative news items.

As mentioned below, there can only be one bestselling female artist, and according to the 2005 edition of the Guinness Book of World Records, it's Madonna, not Céline Dion.

chocolateboy 23:34, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Miracle CD sold 2,000,000 copies worldwide. And the Miracle book sold 500,000 copies. So, it sold totally 2.5 million copies in three months, 'till now. [4]

151.26.47.35

Are you guys done with the childish XYZ is the biggest selling female artist of all time? What a bunch of jealous comments. If a source is given with whatever is written in the Celine page, then so be it. That is only according to the source mentionned. If there are no sources mentionned then the statement should be removed. It's pretty simple. Same should be done with the Madonna page. Just saying "according to Sony..." isn't enough. There should be a link or at least a reference to the statement so that the info can be verified somewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mtl2la (talk • contribs) .


To answer your question about a new day has come: US: 3.205 million europe:3.5 million canada: 0.6 million australia: 0.14 m japan: 0.132 NZ: 0.015 Mexico: 0.3 taiwan: 0.13 that would amount for about 8 million approximately, the rest i don't know

and btw celine won the wma for 175 million albums sold and not records

Net Worth

Here is an article from Canada from Dec. 2003 saying Céline was officialy worth $320 million, she has not added over $400 million to $900 million to her net worth in 1 year! I'm changing that in the Trivia slightly... http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1070932521152_17/ MadonnaFan 23:52, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In 2002 Celine made 120 million dollars (according to Fortune). Now multiply that by 20 years in show business. User:Ise

She's worth less than $336 million. [5]
chocolateboy 16:58, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/mini/CTVNews/1072273539654_67682739?s_name=junos2004&no_ads=y Help me do the math, if she makes this much in one year (ticket sales only), and made much more the year before. And these are years when her record sales havent been up, tell me, how can she be worth less than 336 million? According to "POLLSTAR’S MIDYEAR TOUR POLL" Dion had made almost $41 million in mid 2004 only from her Vegas shows ticket sales. Apart from ticket sales she gets an additional $100 million from Caesars Palace. So lets se, 120 million (according to Fortune) in 2002, 80 million from ticket sales in 2003, 100 million for her Vegas show and 41 million from her Vegas show in the first six months of 2004. If these numbers are true (if they arent faking ticketsales) she has made more than 336 million in the past years 3 years.

I suggest you take it up with her accountant! This is an encyclopedia, not a forum for fan fiction.
"Most successful female solo artist" is a distinction that only one artist can hold. According to the "Guinness World Records" website, Madonna holds it [6] and Céline Dion doesn't. [7][8]
I've also reverted the other changes, which are unsubstantiated. See User talk:81.226.182.193.
chocolateboy 17:54, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Celine is not worth 1 billion dollars, she does not pocket every single dollar her albums and tours and shows generate! MadonnaFan 05:01, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)


Madonna is the richest female singer with a fortune of $613 million, thus making the old Celine figure useless... http://popdirt.com/article35232.html MadonnaFan 21:58, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)


Celine Dion IS THE BEST SELLING FEMALE ARTIST! and im not even a fan of hers: It was sayd on the WMA's and on VH1, and even Oprah sayd that! You are a Madonna fan, that's why you are so obsessed telling everybody tha Madonna is the best selling female artist, and the Guinnes Book of World Redords, doesn't say anything about it.

How much a person is worth and how much a person has made in the past year is 2 different thing. What she's worth is not only based on ticket sales and record sales. How old are you guys? Celine has a few production company to her name and she and her husband are managing the career of 2 other singer. She's got properties in Canada and in the USA. There's also money coming in for every song of hers that's being played on the radio around the world. I don't know how they come up with a number but for sure this is just an estimate and not a fact! :mtl2la


Before her A new day show, she was worth 320 million dollars. Now with the 100 million dollar contract and half of the ticket sales (approximately another 130 million) plus the extension of her contract for 45 million, the chrysler deal of 10 million, that would amount to 605 million dollars (not counting the percentage she gets from selling albums...).

what you say about moving Discography to separate page

Vorash 05:20, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

500 Billion times?

(This is about a piece of "trivia" that claimed that the song "my heart will go on" was played nearly 500 million times on radio stations worldwide.)

Suppose a radio station plays "my heart will go on" every two hours, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the whole year of 1998. That's 12x365, which I generously round up to 5,000 playings. For 500 Billion playings total, we need 500 Billion/5,000 = 100 Million such radio stations.

There are under 200 countries in the world. That means we need at least (on average) 100 Million/200 = 500,000 Celine Dion radio stations per country.

Even America can probably only have, generously estimated, about 100 such crazy Celine Dion radio stations per state, giving 50x100 = 5,000. But we need 500,000 not 5,000.

Thus, 500 Billion times is an overestimate by at least a factor of 100. The figure is obviously nonsense.

Let's try a realistic estimate of how often "my heart will to on" might have been played on the radio in 1998. Maybe 1,000 is a more realistic number of playings of the song per year on one station. Multiply that by maybe 50 such stations per state in the US to get 50x50x1000=250,000 playings in the US. Very generously counted, you might multiply the number of playings in the US by 20 to get the worldwide playings. (Maybe 10 countries could contribute as much as the US each, the rest of the world can't contribute much at all.) That gives 20x250,000 = 5 Million playings. Not 500 Billion. That is a factor of 100,000 or five orders of magnitude!

I'm a big fan of celine and I can clearly see that what you have written is false because of that: in the beginning of your text tou told us that my heart will go on has played 500 millions yime and at the end you have said that this song was played by the radio about 500 billions times. So... your sources are wrong my dear... What I could say is that the videoclip on Tv count in that number, each time also she sang it, each time we heard it on radio. It's really possible that the song has played 500 millions times. It's the best song ever according to all critics and it's sure it's that song (yes it's a celine dion's song and not a Madonna's one who played the most on radio. It's a fact. Celine's much better than madonna who's doing the same thing album after album. She over 10 years older than Celine. Celine will become surely more famous than Madonna when she will turn 47!

You can try estimating this number yourself, using assumptions you may find more reasonable than the ones I used. But no matter what you do, you will see that 500 Billion is nonsense.

Then please modify the sentence as you see fit, without simply deleting it. Would "several million times" work better for you? Hermione1980 22:07, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree with deleting.....this sentence is unverified...and cant be verified.....Vorash 22:26, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Nouvelle France

I changed the word "Anglo-French-Canadian" because Nouvelle-France is a "Franco-Québécois" movie, that means it's been financed by France and by Canada. As being a french-speaking movie, the prefixe "anglo" doesn't belong here.


That tidbit of info is still incorrect. The film is a co-production between Canadian, French and British filmakers. :mtl2la

Awards

Any mention about her awarded Order of Canada and the National ordre de Quebec other than musical awards? What about her roles as spokesperson like for Air Canada? --Kvasir 08:49, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Music Reviews, from print sources

A search on proquest yielded the following reviews; hopefully they're helpful.

  • Re Beautiful Boy: "Heart-pounding choruses? Notes that kiss the clouds? Not this time." "Adult contemporary radio failed to give Dion's previous "You & I" a fair shake; maybe this understated, unexpected gem will restore faith in a timeless, enormously versatile artist who always makes the often-staid radio format sound more vital." (CELINE DION: Beautiful Boy - Chuck Taylor. Billboard. New York: Oct 16, 2004.Vol.116, Iss. 42; pg. 33, 1 pgs)
  • Re Miracle: "But in the end, the whole earth-mama act is just opportunism, reborn." ( Miracle - Nancy Miller. Entertainment Weekly. New York: Oct 22, 2004., Iss. 789; pg. 96, 1 pgs)
  • Re One Heart: " They'll buy "One Heart," too, and likely won't be disappointed. It's a collection of tuneful yet utterly predictable pop ballads and lightly simmering dance tracks. Think of Dion as the mailman among divas: Most days her bag is full of catalogs and bills - and yet she always delivers." (CELINE'S A DIVA WHO STILL GOES ON AND ON; [FIVE STAR LATE LIFT Edition] - Daniel Durchholz. St. Louis Post - Dispatch. St. Louis, Mo.: Apr 24, 2003. pg. F.3)
  • Re These Are Special Times: "A vocal Olympian for whom there ain't no mountain --- or scale --- high enough, Dion is beloved by millions and still impossible to take with a straight face." "The decidedly un-special "These Are Special Times" will do just fine in that regard." (ALBUM REVIEW Celine Dion unleashes her range in time for Christmas - Steve Dollar. The Atlanta Constitution. Atlanta, Ga.: Nov 3, 1998. pg. C.01)
  • Re All the Way: "The challenge, then, of Dion's latest opus, "All the Way . . . A Decade of Song" (Epic/550 Music), is to listen to the album's 16 unabashedly romantic tunes and not find yourself humming along with the melodies or swept away in her deliciously dramatic vocals. Good luck." ""All the Way . . . A Decade of Song" doesn't paint a portrait of a groundbreaking or challenging artist, but it does showcase the best of what a true pop diva has to offer: high-drama, glorious vocals and loads of odes to love. For the millions of fans that hope to find this collection stuffed in their stocking, that's more than enough." (`All the Way' delivers a decade of Celine Dion; [2 STAR Edition] - JOEY GUERRA. Houston Chronicle. Houston, Tex.: Nov 16, 1999. pg. 1)
  • Re All the Way: "Anyone already inclined to dislike Dion will have his or her suspicions confirmed by the title track, which finds her singing a duet with the long-dead Frank Sinatra. It's frankly creepy, and not a little ironic: One suspects that, were he still alive, Sinatra would not find Dion to be his type of broad." (Recordings; [CHICAGOLAND FINAL Edition 6] - Allison Stewart. Chicago Tribune. Chicago, Ill.: Dec 12, 1999. pg. 10)
  • Re God Bless America: "This first televised performance from Dion since she announced her semi-retirement at the end of 1999 brings to mind what has made her one of the celebrated vocalists of our time: the ability to render emotion that shakes the soul. There has never been a better time. Affecting, meaningful, and filled with grace, this is a musical reflection to share with all of us still searching for ways to cope." (Celine Dion: God Bless America - Chuck Taylor. Billboard. New York: Oct 6, 2001.Vol.113, Iss. 40; pg. 22, 1 pgs)
  • Re Let's Talk about Love: "Unfortunately, that turf remains strictly in the middle of the road. Dion's voice is without question a technical marvel, but her delivery lacks the personality and the intuitive sense of drama that are a diva's stock in trade. On the super-schmaltzy "Tell Him," the power and clarity of her voice rival Streisand's, but in terms of emoting, the elder singer leaves her in the dust. Elsewhere, Dion generally adheres to her usual formula of bloodless brilliance, so that the feisty, reggae-laced "Treat Her Like a Lady" is just as dazzling as the pining, pathos-ridden "My Heart Will Go On"--and no more convincing. With all her talent and ambition, Dion may reasonably expect to move mountains, but she has yet to prove adept at moving hearts." (POP MUSIC: ROCK / COUNTRY / R&B / RAP / LATIN / JAZZ; RECORD RACK; More Prowess Than Passion for Dion; Not So for Metallica; ** CELINE DION, "Let's Talk About Love," 550 Music/Epic; [Home Edition] - Elysa Gardner. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Nov 16, 1997. pg. 68)
  • Re Falling into you: "That song [Because You Loved Me] and a remake of Eric Carmen's 1976 hit, All by Myself, are the strongest cuts on an album crammed with formulaic romantic bombast. The melodrama peaks with two overblown Jim Steinman productions: It's All Coming Back to Me Now, a romantic flashback replete with thunderclaps, and River Deep, Mountain High, an anemic remake of a classic Phil Spector production." (New Releases; [Review 2] - Holden, Stephen. New York Times. (Late Edition (East Coast)). New York, N.Y.: Apr 14, 1996. pg. 2.30, 2 pgs)
  • Re Falling into you: " Despite her incredible pipes, Dion's flawless singing displayed scant evidence of an emotional connection to the lyrics, although the French tunes were more passionate and many of the ballads did glitter, however coldly. But the R&B numbers, including the classic "River Deep--Mountain High," were little more than Vegas-revue renditions--flashy, but sterile. It was hard not to think of Tina Turner's rendition of "River," which blazed directly from her gut, while Dion's version merely vaulted straight out of her voice box." (Dion: The Hostess With the Mostest; Pop music review: The Grammy winner is charming at the Universal Amphitheatre but her singing still lacks emotional connection.; [Home Edition] - NATALIE NICHOLS. Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Mar 27, 1997. pg. 47)

--Spangineeres (háblame) 22:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Titles added to sources above. --Spangineeres (háblame) 22:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Still slightly POV

  • The media ridicule had not ended, and she was presented as a diva and parodied repeatedly on "Mad TV", "Saturday Night Live" and many late-night Talk shows. Dion, however, seems unabashed by all the negative comments.

I know it's really hard to write neutrally about a subject you like, but this sentence still reads like "Poor Celine, the media just wouldn't leave her alone!". I'm not sure how best to reword it, but the phrases "had not ended" and "repeatedly" ring alarm bells.

  • Someone should really add that she's being bashed all the time by South Park, Conan O'Brien and many more (not only "impersonated" like the article suggests). That's the reality and people need to accept that she's a great target for ridicule.--Manwe 17:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Named after a song

We can't very well say she was named after a song, without any hint as to what the song was.--Pharos 07:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

The song is called "I Wanna Write A Song For Celine Dion" by the Canadian group The Collins/Pickell Project. The song was featured on the EP "I Wanna Write A Song For Celine Dion... And Other Goofy Greats" on Popular Records 623398338922.

  • I looked up the lyrics, and that's very obviously a song written about Celine Dion, so her mother couldn't very well have named her infant daughter after it. I notice that in the interim someone has removed the factoid of her being named after a song... was this found to be inaccurate, or what?--Pharos 00:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No! I think nobody cared re-adding the info anywhere in the article. Mtl2la 23:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Celine Dion was named after the song "Celine" by Hugues Aufray. Thérèse Dion (Celine's mother) heard this song while pregnant and was touched by the lyrics. Celine has mentioned this one or two times in various interviews throughout the years.

Does she perform live?

From the article I don't get the sense that she is an accomplished live performer. Is this accurate? To omit such a vital piece of a musician's repertoire, even given the commercial slant of this singer's career, would be a diservice. --HasBeen 10:49, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

if celine doesn't perform live, then no other singer on earth does!!!!!!!

SONGWRITER???!!!

Messy Thinking 01:18, 13 January 2006 (UTC) Where are the songwriting credits???!!!

  • I believe a source was cited. 207.236.66.194 01:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Which song did she write? I don't think it is wiki to say she is a songwriter, when she isen't known for that. Fad (ix) 17:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

She is credited as a songwriter on the following songs: "Ce N'était Qu'un Rêve", "Treat Her Like A Lady", "Don't Save It All For Christmas Day" and "Isabella".

The marathon is over.

Congrats to everyone who contributed to making this a featured article. Only the US Congress could have stalled decision-making any longer in the FAC process, and those who didn't want to update their comments were basically [[filibuster]ing, but we did it! Special consideration must be given to Orane, the driving force behind the article. I'll go give him a barnstar now. Harro. 5 00:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I personally believe it was a mistake of making this article a featured one, and this comming from someone who lives in Quebec, Canada. This article is much too fanclubish and has not the tone of what a featured article should be here in Wikipedia. One example, is when I have asked which song she wrote(which would make the claim of songwritter as notable) I still haven't recieved any answers. Britannica is not a primary, or even secondary source... Fad (ix) 17:08, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

What does "much too fanclubish" mean? You've used that phrase twice. Do you expect to make vague, general statements here and on the FAC page and be taken seriously? Please cite specific lines/paragraphs/sections that have the POV tone (and please make them convincing), and then people will start taking you more seriously.
As for her songwriting abilities: Dion does not write many of songs, but she is still involved in the writing process. I know for a fact that she composed her first song (and many others in her younger days —the article says so). She has also received several singwriting credits on a couple of her English releases, namely "Treat Her Like a lady" from Let's Talk about Love and "Don't save it all for Christmas Day" from These Are Special Times. (I know this because I have the albums with the booklets. Bear in mind that this isnt original research, as the info is printed and published worldwide.)
Lastly, Britannica is a superior source as it is written and reviewed by professionals. It certainly has more authority than Wikipedia, where info can change in the blink of an eye. Orane (t) (c) (e) 21:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I think I was clear, and the article is so obviously fanclubish that anyone uninvolved with the redaction (and/or is not a fan) of it would clearly see that. Another example was still left unanswered in the section "Still slightly POV." Not to say ommissions on the more controversial sides like the accusation of stealing music, which ended up with out of court arrangements.
Comming to the songwriting part, I haven't seen in Jean Beaunoyer biography of her, anything suggesting that her songwriter side is notable enough to be included in an encyclopedia. And it isen't surprising that a singer participate somehow sometimes in texts and ger his/her name in the credit lists of some songs, but to impute her a songwriter title right on the beggining with other 'titles' is misleading. As for Britannica, Wikipedia NPOV policy is higher than Britannicas..., even if its application is problematic. And a recent test of Wikipedia against Britannica on science articles by scientists asked to judge, has shown Britannica to be not so better than Wikipedia. Fad (ix) 22:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I reiterate: If you want your opinion to be taken seriously, find specific and addressable sections from the article. Do not just say "its biased" — just because you say it, that doesn't mean it's true. The article maintains a balance. For example, whould a fan club article use quotes like these:

  1. "Stephen Holden (The Los Angeles Times) and Natalie Nichols (The New York Times) wrote that the album was formulaic and the songs suffered from a lack of emotional connection."
  2. "she was seen as "the height of cookie-cutter banality.""
  3. In a scathing review of Let's Talk about Love, Rob O'Connor wrote:
"What never ceases to amaze me is how the trite-est, most cliché-ridden music often takes an assembly-line of lauded music industry professionals to perfect... Sinking ships are what I imagine as this tune ["My Heart Will Go On"] plows onward of four-plus minutes, and this album feels as if were never to end. Is it no wonder why I have such fears of going to the dentist?"
  1. Dion was also criticized for some of her remakes and duets: "The First Time Ever I saw Your Face" (her Roberta Flack remake) and the "All the Way" duet with Frank Sinatra were described as disastrous and "creepy" by Allison Stewart of The Chicago Tribune and Erlwine of All Music Guide.
  2. Although achieving moderate success, One Heart gave indication that Dion was unable to surpass the creative wall that she had hit, and words such as "predictable" or "banal" appeared even in the most lenient reviews.

I could point out 100 more lines like those mentioned above. I have never gone to a fan page and read an article like this. As for the controversy: Ive read many biographies and news of the singer, and Ive never come accross any news of "music stealing". If I did, and considered it notable, I would have included it. You can too, if you can cite sources, (and maintain NPOV). The "Still slightly POV" section was made long ago, and was addressed by me; the sentences that he cited from the article (what Ive been encouraging you to do) has been removed. As for songwriting (again), just because you didnt read it in one bio, that does not mean that she isn't. She has written a lot of her earlier material, and some of her later releases. Orane (t) (c) (e) 23:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool down please, I have no interest in the subject of this article, I just ended in the featured vote section because I was reading about a user and it was on the talk page of that person. I find the article funclubish, I repeated this, I have no interest discussing about it and neither do I need to justify my opinion. The last time I have checked, and unless I have some amnesia, I don't remember me having edited this article, I just gave my opinion about it in the context of it being a featured one. I do believe it is a good article, but I just opposed it to be a featured one, and this is MY opinion and I am free to give it regardless of how some passioned person think of what I believe.
Comming to the quote you've placed there, those are neutral tone, which are balanced with a fanclubish tone, and I gave two examples. And before you start recycling the "bring it to be taken seriously" tone, I will for the Xnt time repeat that I have no intention to participate in this entry . As for the music stealing, you can contact any medias here in Quebec, be it TQS, TVA or Radio-Canada, you may start with Radi-Canada and you will see that the whole affair was just more than few noises.
And finally, writting few songs doesn't make someone a songwriter, I paint, this doesn't make me a painter. You are overblowing her song 'writing'; in fact, from the first song she participated in the writting of, to today, can you specify one song she entirly wrote which is signed by her name? Has she ever been notably recognized as a songwriter? That was entirly my point, you jumped on me with such a passion and turned this as if I was slandering her or something. Fad (ix) 01:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
First, I am very sorry if I offended you; that was never my intention.
You state that you have no interest in justifying your opinion here or in the FAC. If that is the case, then why did you vote in the FAC? This is the thing Im talking about: many editors vote simply because they want to be involved in something. The purpose of a FAC vote is to highlight the weakness/strength of an article, backed by specific evidences and ways it can be improved —the voting guidelines state this. If you had no intention of citing specific instances so the editor could correct them, then you should not have voted. And if you had no intention of justifying your opinion, then why are you making unsupported claims on the talkpage? The very fact that you broght it up here means that you wanted to "talk" about it.
Songwriter: Yes, you are right: you paint, does that make you a painter? no. But you paint and its gets published, then yes, you are a painter. Dion has been given songwriting credits on some of her works, and that very fact means that she is recognised as such. You don't have to write a song by yourself to be considered a song-writer. Also, she won a gold medal at the Yamaha songwriting competition in Japan. source (go to the fourth to last line in the first paragraph). I should also let you know that the lead has been changed to "occasional songwriter". Orane (t) (c) (e) 02:13, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


How about "occasional songwriter"? 64.231.170.3 23:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Sounds great. Orane (t) (c) (e) 23:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


Celine Dion 4th highest female seller

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) has just published its updated list of the 150 highest selling artists ever. IFPI has finally come up with a list of the top-selling acts in History. Its about time.

The top 10 is as follows:

01. The Beatles 40 400,000,000 UK 60s (1962-1970) Rock/Pop Guinness/EMI

02. Michael Jackson 14 350,000,000 US 70s-00s (1979-) Pop/R&B

03. Elvis Presley 150 300,000,000 US 50s-70s (1956-1977) Country/Rock

04. Madonna 16 275,000,000 US 80s-00s (1984-) Pop

05. Nana Mouskouri 450 250,000,000 Greece 60s-00s (1959-) Pop

06. Cliff Richard 60 250,000,000 UK 50s-00s (1959-1969,1977-1979,1986-1999) Rock/Pop

07.The Rolling Stones 54 ~250,000,000 UK 60s-00s (1964-1981) Rock

08. Mariah Carey 14 230,000,000 US 90s-00s (1990-) Pop/R&B

09. Elton John 43 ~220,000,000 UK 70s-00s (1972-1976,1989-1991,1997-) Pop

10.Celine Dion 21 220,000,000 Canada 80s-00s (1990-) Pop Music/Pop

Source: IFPI http://mjtkop.com/home/ http://www.madonna.com/

The source is wrong. This was published first here on Wikipedia by a Madonna fan. IFPI does NOT tabulate worldwide sales. There's no such article on their website. Instead of citing a source you should make sure the source has indeed the fact published, which in this case is false.

Accents in article name

I'm sure this has come up before, but since Céline Dion is marketed throughout the English-speaking world without the proper accent in her name, the form "Celine Dion" is far more well-known to the English-speaking readers of this encyclopedia. Does this not suggest per naming conventions that we should use that form as the article title? Deco 19:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Having received no response in over 3 days, I've decided to be bold and move the article. Deco 08:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

It seems that in the distant past a copy-paste move was made to the new title from Celine Dion. To properly credit the contributors, I am copying the history of that article here before deleting it for this move.

(cur) (last)  05:34, 30 March 2003 Zoe (#REDIRECT Céline Dion) 
(cur) (last)  14:39, 29 March 2003 Michael 
(cur) (last)  14:38, 29 March 2003 Michael 
(cur) (last)  22:53, 28 December 2002 216.234.195.10 
(cur) (last)  11:49, 8 October 2002 209.105.200.7 
(cur) (last)  00:28, 8 October 2002 Maveric149 (WikiFormat date area) 
(cur) (last)  00:02, 8 October 2002 HollyAm m (Corrected Disney movie title and copyedit) 
(cur) (last)  23:38, 7 October 2002 209.105.200.152 m 
(cur) (last)  23:36, 7 October 2002 209.105.200.152 
(cur) (last)  23:29, 7 October 2002 209.105.200.152

Move complete and all redirects skipped using a bot. Deco 09:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Celine Dion Magazine

I've removed the mention of the Celine Dion Magazine from the Other Activites section where it was mentionned the magazine was part of her entrepeneurship, which is false as it is owned and operated by a group of fans. The magazine has not affiliation to her record company either.

Celine or Céline?

Isn't there a consensus about which name for we should use? With Diatricts or without? This article is confusing because it uses the two. Personally, I prefer Celine because it's more familiar to the English reader. CG 19:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, her perfume is Celine Dion, no accent. ProhibitOnions 23:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
There are are a few ways of going about this. I looked though my iPod to see what songs I have by the artist. All of them use the data from the Gracenote CDDB service. That service does not have an accsented "e". The CDs I have do not do this ether. The next step would be to go to ProQuest or Lexis-Nexis and search there. My guess is that it would be a tie. Google would also be a next area to search. Again, a search would be tied. Another place to go look would be her Order of Canada citation. Finally, as a last resort, a Wikipedian in Quebec could call up the registar of deeds or the department of vital statistics and ask. I doubt this would be easy do to her celebrity status. - Thanks, Hoshie | Grand Union Flag 13:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes it's a bit confusing: In here official website, both "Celine" and "Céline" are used equally. in the USA official website it's "Celine". The Governor General site uses "Céline". As for CelineDionWeb.com, the French version of the site uses "Céline" while the English one uses "Celine". In Allmusic it's "Celine". I put a Request for comment to bring more interesting users to this discussion. CG 09:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd say use the version with the accent, since that's her given name. It's not like people won't be able to find the article; that's what redirects are for. Hermione1980 15:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, just like Quebec/Québec — the English and French spellings differ. "Celine" is used in English works, as CG pointed out. I say leave it at its current state.Orane (t) (c) (e) 02:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

You should use whatever is on her album...Osbus 01:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Use that spelling which her record company promotes among English-speaking public. She dropped the accent from the covers of her albums, since her American career took an upward turn after the release of The Colour of My Love. When I get home I'll check the titles to ascertain at which point of her career this happened. --Ghirla -трёп- 09:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
So this is a consensus. We should always use "Celine". I'll just wait a little before converting all the "Céline"s into "Celine" in this article and move some articles (like Céline Dion awards and accomplishments). CG 16:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I moved the page to the current title and explained myself at the time by saying that was the name be which she was most well-known to English speakers. To quote Wikipedia:Naming convention: "Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize". Deco 21:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Place the article back to «Céline Dion»! This is a personal name and should not be considered to be within the «Naming convention». You could consider «Celine Dion» as a performer name, not as her real one. So the debate is on: should we name this article about her real name or about her performer name????Souris2005 17:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Her given name is Céline, and that name is printed on her French-language albums, but in the English-speaking world a much, much larger number of people know her by the stage name Celine under which she is marketed. Per naming conventions, which suggest we use the most familiar name, I strongly suggest the article title Celine Dion. If there is no dissent, I will move it back to the title Celine Dion in 3 days. Deco 19:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

My 2p worth

I think that the article title should be Céline Dion, with the é. It's her proper name, simple as that... and it's the name she herself uses as she writes. The version with the un-accented e is a dumbed-down version for the English-speaking world. It is the most commonly used version by English speakers; not because it's correct for English speakers to remove accents from foreign names, but quite simply because the majority of English speakers don't have keyboards with an é on... and don't have the patience to learn how to use ALT+0233! I strongly disagree that any article should be named incorrectly just because Google shows more matches for the incorrect version, which has only come about due to Anglophone arrogance and laziness. Can we please move the article name back? And.. as has been said... there will be no confusion at all. That's what redirects are for. Celine Dion can redirect to Céline Dion. EuroSong talk 17:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

You haven't addressed the point that this is the primary name that her work is marketed under in the English-speaking world, which is the sole justification for the title "Celine Dion". This isn't about lazy typing; most people have never even seen her real name. Like I said, we might as well move Madonna (entertainer) to Madonna Ciccone or Jewel (singer) to Jewel Kilcher. Deco 17:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Madonna's real name is Madonna. If there were only one famous "Madonna", then the Wikipedia article would be entitled as such: it's only got "(entertainer)" in the title for disambiguation purposes. Jewel's real name is Jewel. She writes her own name as such. It doesn't matter so much about the surnames.. the fact is, these are the correct names. Céline writes her own name with the é. I think it's more important to get her name correct than to bow to the "marketing", which has deliberately dumbed down her name for the ignorant English-speaking public, who don't know how to make an é on their keyboards. However, we at Wikipedia do know how do make the é. Check all the other language versions of the article. Every latin-alphabet-using language uses Céline apart from three (Swedish, Turkish and Indonesian). The é is found in all the rest.. not just the French language article. So if other non-French speakers are able to use Céline, why aren't we? Obviously English speakers are too dumb, and accents confuse them :P Well.. seriously, that's how it comes across. If no-one makes any objections with a good, well-founded reason which has not already been mentioned, it is my intention to change the name. I'll give it some time. EuroSong talk 18:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Oscar winning??

I noticed someone had removed the Oscar winning mention and Journalist reversed the deletion shortly after. In fact, Celine Dion never won an Oscar. Two of her songs did indeed win an Oscar (Academy Award) but Celine never received the award as the statuette is only given to the songwriting team (lyricist and composer). So in all fairness, I think it's completely wrong to mention that Celine won an Oscar (or 2) just because she happened to sing "Beauty And The Beast" and "My Heart Will Go On". I substituted the Oscar mention with Félix Award. - mtl2la April 5, 2006.

Yamaha World Song Festival

That Music Festival which was held in Tokio Japan was actually called the Yamaha World Popular Song Festival. The way Journalist had linked the name of the festival forwarded to a non-existant article on Wiki. That festival has been created on Wiki under the name Yamaha Music Festival. That's why I changed the name only to find out Journalist changed it back to what it was before. The way it is right now shows no Wiki article when clicking on that link. Why not keep it the way I had changed it with a direct link to the wiki article regarding the event? I feel like no matter how well we're trying to correct factual data, it will always be changed back to what the administrators want with no explanation in this discussion section. It's a bit unfair if you ask me to.--Mtl2la 20:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I apologise for that. I actuall have never heard it being referred to by Yamaha World Popular Song Festival. It's now correct. If at any time you are concerned about my actions, pleaese do not hesitate to speak up (you could come to my talk page). Orane (t) (c) (e) 04:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

EXTERNAL LINKS

I've removed all external links to any fan sites. That section should be reserved to official links from the artist only.

But you removes important information for example in the link from http://www.celinedionweb.com/celine-dion/en,tv-series.html appears important information of her acting experience in Canada, (sources Ma vie, mon rêve from Celine Dion) and you change for a IMDB.Com. link (there appears only a cast list and a fan opinion).

Tronix April 2006 (UTC)

I've added an external link to CelineDionWeb.com. Even though it is not an official site, I think it is an important ressource since it is frequently used as a reference as much as the official site. Please visit this site and you'll understand why. I think instead of removing a fansite without even looking at it, you should select the links you display by visiting them before. Cdt2u 13:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Besides, if you keep only the official sites, 'All Music Guide' and 'Rock on the Net' should be removed. They are not Celine Dion's official sites. Cdt2u 14:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It is clearly stated NOT to add fan sites when you get to the edit section of this article. It even says it's a Wiki regulation. I understand you want to get your site more exposure but this is not the place to do so. If people want to access Celine Dion fan site they can use Google or Yahoo to do so. This place is to offer articles with official references. Mtl2la 23:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

This isn't really true. There's no rule against linking fansites. However, we should only link fan sites that are highly notable or authoritative, and this almost never applies to relatively new, small fan sites. Deco 07:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

It is clearly stated in the Wikipedia External Links guidelines that "Articles about any organization, person, or other entity should link to their official site, if they have one". Since Celine Dion has an official website, fan sites should not be added in the External Link section. There are too many of those unofficial sites to allow one or two to be listed. Mtl2la 16:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing "Deal or no Deal" refernce from other activities section...

...becuase she has done so many of these sorts of appearances, this perticular things seems to have little significance.


Vocal Range

Celine hit an F#6 in "Sorry For Love" around the 3:40 of the song...it's harmonized in the background, but it's an F#6.

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