Talk:Celeste Holm

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Is the most recent addition (the note about what Holm doesn't mention on her web site) suitable for an encyclopedia, or is it unnecessarily accusatory/sharp about a minor truth? I am not at all convinced that Holm should be called on the carpet in this article for the fact that she doesn't mention her estranged son or ex-husbands on her web site -- I don't understand, in other words, why it's important to have here. But maybe I'm just being cranky. Any thoughts? Jwrosenzweig 20:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Birthday change

Does anyone know why 64.12.117.5 changed Ms. Holm's Birthday from the accepted 1919 to 1917? IMDb, PlayBill & Ms. Holmes website seem to agree on the 1919 date, I just wanted to know if there were citations or sources to support the older date. --(unsigned by) Freddiefreelance 10:56, 29 April 2005

This article [1] pretty much confirms 1917 as the correct year. Crisso 13:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Her birthday is the 87th at [2] and [3], which means the AP birthday for her is in 1919. The Guardian also lists it as her 87th birthday. Therefore the 89th birthday is a typo, since no other newspaper I can find on Newsbank or topix.net seems to state 89th. --PhantomS 16:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, announcement of her marriage at her 85th birthday here. Also, Broadway debut was at 19, which falls in line with her IBDB listing at 1938. --PhantomS 17:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

None of these sources are especially authoritative - they are just going with the information that was previously available when it was thought she was born in 1919. The details of the 1920 Brooklyn census fall in line with her being born in 1917, and that is now becoming accepted as the year she was born in. Crisso 15:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I also checked Almanac of Famous People, Contemporary Theatre, Film, and Television, Marquis Who's Who, and People Weekly using the Biography Resource Center. Therefore, since I've cited numerous verifiable, professional sources, while your date is reliant upon a possibly inaccurate census record that I am unable to verify, I'm returning the date to 1919. --PhantomS 18:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, who is accepting this 1917 date that you are using, considering that she is still alive? The only site that I really see is IMDB, which doesn't fact check as well as it should. --PhantomS 19:22, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, here are some sources saying she is 89 [4], [5] and this one

[6] is from her official website. Crisso 17:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

If you check her profile on the Fire Island Golden Wagon Film Festival link you gave me, it states she gave her Broadway debut at 19, which is in line with the 1919 birth year, thus giving conflicting birth years. Furthermore, the "official" site and the MODA entertainment press release links you gave are both by the same public relations agency (MODA entertainment). Considering these agencies are notorious for making major mistakes on their "official" websites, this data can't be taken at face value. Therefore, since the only non-conflicting source that you have provided is the date that MODA entertainment has been giving as her birth year, there's not enough verifiable evidence to change it back. --PhantomS 18:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, another source for 1919 is this Time Magazine article. --PhantomS 18:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, if you look at this profile page on her by MODA entertainment, you can tell that they get their data from IMDB. Therefore, the sources you gave above do not seem to be reliable.--PhantomS 19:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I really thought that you might like to be accurate. All of the sources you cite are derived from the 20 Century publicity dept when she was under contract in the 40's. She admits shaving two years off her birthdate to appear younger. Additionally, her father did not work for Lloyds of London. Your own listing states that they are not a company or a corporation but a list of names who invest in re-insurance. His company provided marine adjustment services to names in Lloyds. Hhfarm5.

I don't have a problem with the birth date and information about her father's employment being corrected. However, it does need to be cited, since Wikipedia has a No Original Research policy. --PhantomS 02:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)