User talk:CBDunkerson/Archive3

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[edit] Middle-earth articles

Looking at some of your recent edits, I can only assume that you noticed the source of some of the statements you were correcting. (Heck, you were probably able to guess who had made those changes even without looking at the edit histories or talk pages.) Have you also looked at the discussions that he and I had on, say, Talk:Middle-earth, Talk:Middle-earth canon, and Talk:J. R. R. Tolkien? I simply haven't had the time (or desire) to hold up my end of what could have turned into an edit war, especially without any apparent support from the rest of the community here. (And I really don't have time now!) Also, I'm hesitant to proceed here until I've resolved my committment (wise or not) to finish a revision of that essay/debate summary on the Uruk-hai that I posted to the newsgroups a few months ago. But in any case, I'm quite happy to see you involved here too. Just don't let it sap too much of your time!--Steuard 21:36, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Middle-Earth

I've just sen your wikiproject - nice work :) I am an author of polish Middle-Earth portal - and I think you could find there something useful :) In example I've made some timeline templates, they need only few translations and would be ready to publicate here. Probably I'll have some free time to do it on saturday. Links to polish versions you can find at the bottom of the portal - write if you like it, and if you'd like to change sth in english versions :) Nameless pl 21:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Middle-earth portal formatting problem

The text from the boxes in the right-hand column overlap, and I can't figure out how to fix it.

A drastic solution, but one that would definitely work, would be to start over, using the code from the Philosophy portal as a guide. We've worked out all the bugs, and it is very stable. And it uses subpage transclusion rather than template transclusion. Go for it! 11:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm almost done converting the portal over to the philosophy format. It should be another half-hour or so. Go for it! 11:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Middle-earth portal conversion complete

Using search/replace to swap the colors went faster than expected. The portal is ready for your inspection. And yes, the boxes automattically size themselves to accomodate whatever you put in their corresponding subpage. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. Go for it! 12:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. It lacks edit buttons, but there is a link under miscellaneous to a list of all the subpages. You can easily edit them from there. I also put a couple links under miscellaneous for tracking changes to all the pages of the portal. Go for it! 12:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I just didn't know how to implement the edit buttons. Thanks for showing me. I've added the feature to the philosophy portal. Thanks! Go for it! 14:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] portal links

I appreciate your work on the portal, but I have my doubts about your template. Adding it to all Tolkien related articles is "template creep" imho, but that's a matter of taste and I won't argue that point. But I do think you should add it to "see also", and not at the top of articles. Also, while I understand "Speak, friend, and enter", it is less than self-explanatory, and a prosaic "Middle-earth portal" would be preferable as a caption (especially since one is not required to "speak" to enter, at all). best regards, dab (ᛏ) 10:10, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

sorry, I hadn't seen your post about the copyright before. With "fair use" you'll be on the safe side. I'm not sure if it is even evident at this low resolution whether it is a slightly different image, or the original one. Anyway, I don't personally care. I don't think we'll have much trouble if you claim the image as your own. It is still clearly a "derived" work and therefore in my understanding falls under copyright. The same would hold for the maps you mention, and just because the Tolkien Trust didn't choose to sue in that case does not mean that they are actually outside copyright. Again, this is not something I care about very much. I don't want to spoil your fun by being pedantic about the template placement either. I may move it down in a couple of instances where I feel it distracts from the actual article, but hey, it is not something about which there should be edit wars; what I told you above is just my personal opinion, and things will depend on what other people think. best regards, dab (ᛏ) 18:23, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Middle-earth portal

Template:Middle-earth portal has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Middle-earth portal. Thank you. --Qirex 01:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bellakar, Anarikê, Sakal an-Khar

These subjects are submitted to wikipedia because Bellakar was earlier submitted.

Yes, this is fan creation, and I see no reason why these texts are "candidates for deletion" while it opens interest to readers. The assumption "candidate for deletion" violate wikipedia as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcantar (talk • contribs).

[edit] Bellakar, Anarikê, Sakal an-Khar

These subjects are submitted to wikipedia because Bellakar was earlier submitted, and because the debate for deletion was not made open.

Yes, this is fan creation, and I see no reason why these texts are "candidates for deletion" while it opens interest to readers. The assumption "candidate for deletion" violate wikipedia as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcantar (talk • contribs).

[edit] Middle-earth maps

  1. Image:Eriador.jpg
  2. Image:Beleriand.png
  3. Image:Middleearth.jpg

Hi, you've tagged a number of maps as {{cc-by-2.0-map}} (which would entitle commercial use of the work) that I had earlier tagged as {{CopyrightedNotForProfitUseProvidedThat}}. The maps are clearly not under a CC licence as can be seen at http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/faq/use.html, and commercial use is specifically not allowed. Given that, would you not agree that the previous tag better describes the licencing situation of these images? Thanks/wangi 17:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

reference
Yeah, I know that such images are deprecated - but that is intentional, if the content cannot be used commercially then we shouldn't be using it on Wikipedia since we can have commercial downstream users. For more info see this email from Jimmy Wales. Such images are deprecated, not the template - it correctly identifies the copyright of the image.
The real solution here is for someone to recreate these maps themself - perhaps you can ask someone to do that on the Middle-earth WikiProject? Thanks/wangi 18:48, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Or contact Encyclopedia of Arda to get permission to use the maps commercially on this site? wangi 18:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Copyright issues give me a headache. I've switched these back (while leaving in the explanation that Encyclopedia of Arda's copyright itself may be questionable). I think I've seen an Aman map on CC which can be used in place of Encyclopedia of Arda's version. I'll look into getting freely available versions of the others (though their copyright status in relation to the originals by Christopher Tolkien will always be open to question). --CBD ☎ ✉ 19:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Middle-earth

Just to let you know, that the Things to Do page is up...so add anything you feel like needing! —Mirlen 15:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] J. R. R. Tolkien

Hi! My name is Mike, and I wanted to let you know that this article is up for Featured Article Status! It is SOOO CLOSE! And as someone who has worked on this article a lot in the past (having checked the history) I thought you could help me fix the inline citations. As I have none of the books in question, I am out of luck, but thought real enthusiasts might be able to help. So, please help, or get those who you know can to help make Tolkien a featured article! Thanks much! Judgesurreal777 18:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standards

Just thought you know that standards should be decided for family tree templates and tenses concerning the articles, so please respond—share your thoughts...you and I seem to be the only one in the WikiProject though :P. (BTW, if you could reply on my talk page, that'd be appreciated :) ). —Mirlen 04:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

You are probably right. Too many links probably overwhelmed them. (Sorry about that *blushes*). However, I do want to keep the 'Things to Do' page at least. Thanks for responding, btw. Sorry if I keep pushing for you to respond, but I do need people's input on things—after all, I'm only a fifteen-year-old newbie Wikipedian writer/sort-of-manager on these things compared to all the wholly older, more experienced and more knowledgeable on Wikipedia. —Mirlen 04:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maedhros

I have question. How are you having the whole date format? Does that mean that for the War of Wrath, the date should be tweaked to Y.S. instead of F.A. (First Age)? —Mirlen 00:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up :). Hey, I don't know if I mentioned this, but perhaps it is time to archive the talk page? I could do it for you if you'd like :). —Mirlen 01:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Sorry for pelting from time to time with so many questions :P, but I was wondering if you knew whether the correct spelling would be to refer the House of Fëanor members. Is it Fëanorion, Fëanorean, or Fëanorian? —Mirlen 20:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. :) By the way, do you have any suggestions to improve Faramir's article? I do agree that I did go overboard with the biography, so do you have any critiques? —Mirlen 20:53, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't really have a problem with it. It could be more concise, but I don't worry much about the stylistic issues. Only suggestion might be to cut down and/or merge the 'biography' sub-sections. Keep details about Faramir himself but reduce the information about what he did. Possibly move that info to The Two Towers to expand the chapter summaries there. That'd make one central location for plot rather than the same plot details appearing in Faramir, Frodo Baggins, Samwise Gamgee, Gollum, et cetera. --CBDunkerson 21:05, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I'll work on it. Thanks for your critique, CBD. When Ted and I are done, hopefully you'll see an improvement. :) It'd be nice for some of the Tolkien articles to be on Wikipedia 1.0, like the J. R. R. Tolkien article. —Mirlen 21:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Found a contradiction on the Elves article:
A fourth type was the patronymic — the father's name with the suffix "-ion" added. Thus, Gildor Inglorion is "Gildor, son of Inglor".
Is the information on the page wrong—because if the above was true, then it be Fëanorion...? —Mirlen 18:59, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
See Appendix E.II.i, "The Fëanorian Letters" and "Gildor (Inglorion)" in the index. Thus, "Fëanorian" and "Inglorion" are both 'correct' in that they were used by Tolkien. The '-ian' ending is an anglicization (i.e. in English '-ian', '-ien', and '-an' are used to indicate 'of'). Theoretically, one or more of the sons of Fëanor could have been given a name something like 'Maedhros Fëanorion'... but there isn't any reference to such. --CBDunkerson 20:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Thanks CBD. So the names for any of the sons of Fëanor would be, like you said, Maedhros Fëanorian. —Mirlen 21:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

There's a user who added awards that Ian McKellen won in the Gandalf article, and referenced it from an IMBD site. What would be the proper ciatation then — and is a source really needed then, since it's a factual information that's generally in all sources and not controversial/disputed? (Could you respond on my talk page?—thanks!) —Mirlen 20:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay thanks, btw, I was browsing around the internet, and guess what I found on — content from the HoME books (I don't have them right now):
From Volume 10: The Annals of Aman:
1495 - The Flight of the Noldor begins.
1496 - Prophecy of the North.
1497 - The Exiles reach Helcaraxe. Fëanor sets foot upon Middle-earth.
1500 - Host of Fingolfin reaches Beleriand.
From Volume 11: The Grey Annals:
1500 - Host of Fingolfin come at last into Beleriand. "Even as they set foot upon Middle-:earth, the age of the Stars were ended, and the time of the Sun and Moon was begun, as is told in the Chronicle of Aman."
Year of the Sun
1 - First the Moon came forth as Fingolfin began his march into Middle-earth...soon after there came the first Dawn of the Sun.
On the ending of the First Age:
From Volume 11: The Tale of Years
545 - War of Wrath begins.
587 - War of Wrath ends.
590 - Melkor is cast out. The First Age ends here.
When I get the HoME books, I can accurately reference it and fix up the Timeline of Arda. —Mirlen 22:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tenses

Sorry to badger you again CBD, but are the Tolkien related articles in present or past tense? In this discussion it is said that it should be in past tense, (which I agree with, partly because it's strange to write in present tense for Tolkien articles), so I thought it'd be written in past tense, but somebody reverted the tenses on a Tolkien related article saying the the MoS said to write it in present tense for fiction, so now I am rather confused. —Mirlen 14:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks CBD, I think I will plead our case in making an exception for Tolkien articles, btu I will start with baby steps at a time in this, of course. —Mirlen 16:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Let's see how it turns out. And I'll defend our case through thick and thin...I think I have some reasonable rebuttals. I may a pacificist, but as my userbox says, I am a pacificist who will fight for his/her beliefs 'til the bitter end. ;) (I'm awaiting response from the user about the tenses, so I have to see how it turns out). —Mirlen 16:30, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standards

The templates sounds like a good idea! As for the rest, I'll talk more tomorrow. I'm getting kicked off the computer. :P —Mirlen 02:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree — the more that's included in the standards, the better. I'm unfamiliar with the name translation at the top. I've always placed them in the 'Trivia' section, but if placing them at the top is the standards, then alright. Do you have an example I could follow? (Not that I don't believe or anything). As for the spoiler warnings, I think they should be placed after the intro and before the contents. I think legendarium should be used because people will be tempted to put 'fictional universe' of Middle-earth — where there's places like Aman/Valinor. Date formats, course. I also think instead of explaining what happened and say, "in the Return of the King..." — we should use the dates (i.e. 2987 T.A.). The rest I agree with. I've been placing the banner on the talk pages of articles. —Mirlen 23:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Finally done with the Standards page! (However, it is far from being finished, as it needs to polished and issues that need a concenus on). --Mirlen 19:18, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Usenet notability

Was just browsing VFD from the ME WikiProject and noticed this: Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Meow_Wars. Surely if that survived VfD then certain other flame wars might stand a chance? :-) I've also been checking out Category:Newsgroups, but can't work out what the bar for notability is for Usenet newsgroups. Carcharoth 11:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Arda template

I've made some changes to the History of Arda template, and started a discussion on the template talk page. I'm a bit stuck on some bits of table formatting and linking, so I wondered if you'd be able to help? Carcharoth 07:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Report

Reporting for duty, sir! ;) I was wondering if you could check over the Maedhros article before I have it peer reviewed (I want to get at least one [character] article to G.A. status). An IP user inserted some unsourced information in the Trivia section, and I managed to find the references to two of 'em, but I was wondering if you knew the source for the last bullet. (I am about 50%-60% completion of the redesigning of the Standards page, so when it's around 90%-95% finished, I'll post it up and have our members look over it). —Mirlen 23:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I spy some chocolate bunnies, do you? :) —Mirlen 18:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
I spy some chocolate bunnies, do you? :) —Mirlen 18:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for those edits and citation, CBD! Oh, by the way, Happy Easter! Even if you don't celebrate it (like me), the chocolate is something that shouldn't be forgotten, right? —Mirlen 18:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
As for the spellings for Tolkien related articles, we use British, right? —Mirlen 19:52, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
For the chocolate, no problem. You think Maedhros article is ready to undergo peer review (we should say something about how past tense should be used, since I know somebody is going to say something abou that)? Oh btw, you should check out the Maedhros article's talk page concerning references... —Mirlen 22:01, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boromir change

i know the date that boromir left minas tirith to go to rivendell but i forgot it.

[edit] thank you

Thank you for telling me out borimir.

86.140.5.53 18:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nomination

I think the Maedhros article is ready for G.A. nomination, but I heard that an external editor had to nominate it for G.A. I couldn't find this on the G.A. pages, but is this true? —Mirlen 17:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I was worried when I heard that. Thanks. —Mirlen 18:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Lord of the Rings Peer Review

I have make extensive changes to our Lord of the Rings article in an attempt to work it up to Featured Article status. In order to find more suggestions I have listed it under Wikipedia:Peer Review. Under the guidelines to nominations I am required to notify others of knowledge in the area to review it. I have decided that the best group for this would be our WikiProject. So I ask you all to look at the article and make any suggestions you can. Hopefully we will be voting this FA soon enough. SorryGuy 00:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beleriand map

I noticed that the copyright status of the Beleriand map can't be used and therefore needed to be renewed, but instead a map showing a small section of Beleriand, how about a good quality map like this? It's a colored version of Christopher Tolkien's white-black (and red) map. You can find the colored map on numerous number of sites. There is also this version as well, which is very nice. Both appear to be safe to use, since the lawyers have not removed the colored versions of Beleriand maps as they've done for tons of other maps here. The best source of map (the one by John Howe) I'd like to use is the one in the HaperCollins' Silmarillion Gift Pack — they also have nice heraldry images of the Elven houses. —Mirlen 01:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The third link wasn't taken down, it's just the crappy server of Geocities. It's up now again. You can see it from this link. Also, the map on the first link is uploaded on a lot of other sites as well (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Well, getting a high resolution image and turning it into low resolution, dubbing with its respective tag, writing a fair use rationale for it is what I've been doing the Tolkien illustrators' arts after emailing them for their permission. So, I see how the Arda maps are convienient, but I do like more detailed and higher quality map as opposed to a little section of it. So, I'll reload the Beleriand map to the colored version of Christopher Tolkien's map. I just wanted to ask if you were okay with the idea of having a new map...so since it's not taken down, it can be used, right? (Found out where the map is from: HarperCollins 1992 edition of The Silmarillion).
BTW, when I entered the realms of Beleriand in the Beleriand section, the box ended up stretching all the way across the article... —Mirlen 21:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh good, so I'm not the only who thinks the EoA maps are rather crappy. :P Thanks, CBD! —Mirlen 00:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Problem is though, what fair use copyright should it be tagged with? If I use the generic tags, it'll have a limited use of the map (the maximum is five). The only art tag is the 2D art tag... —Mirlen 00:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Alright, sounds good. :) —Mirlen 13:21, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh yes, and can you delete the EoA Beleriand map image? I had to use a JPG file because I only compress JPGs, and also because art must be in JPG file. You can find the new map here: here.

[edit] Silvan

Hi! I'm glad you liked my chart. The subject of the origin of the Silvan language seems to be a little confused. Appendix F of The Lord of the Rings claims that the Elves of Mirkwood and Lórien were "East-elves", as opposed to "West-elves" such as the Sindar. The draft of the same text in The Peoples of Middle-earth (p.79) clarifies that "Eastern Elves" were those that "had hearkened no summons to the Sea ...". This seems to state clearly that the Silvan elves were Avari, and since this is what Tolkien wrote in the one text that he actually published, I have opted to follow that in the chart. Appendix A of "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn" in Unfinished Tales, on the other hand, state that the Silvan were "in origin Eldar". Several other texts make similar claims. This discrepancy should perhaps be noted in the article.

So the Silvan elves (and hence their language) seem to be attributed sometimes to the Avari (LR, QE), sometimes to Nandor (HGC). However, I am not aware of any statement that the Silvan language was descended from both Nandorin and Avarin. As for Sindarin, there is the note that it was spoken with an 'accent' in Lórien, but I can't recall any statement that Silvan was likewise affected by Sindarin.

Of course, many of the languages borrowed from each other, most notably Sindarin and Quenya. The Silvan language may have borrowed extensively from both Nandorin and Sindarin. The chart does not purport to illustrate this, only to show the direct descent of the languages. See my more extensive diagram: http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_ldev2.html.

--Mansbjorkman 07:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we can come to no firm conclusion regarding the origin of the Silvan language. There are at least three sides of the problem:
  1. Tolkien may have changed his mind. Certainly the development of the languages was considered very differently before The Lord of the Rings and afterwards.
  2. The division of the Quendi into different groups is occasionally very confusing. Members of the Telerin 'clan' were (according to QE at least) found among both the Avari and those who embarked on the march. The Nandor seem to have been regarded sometimes as Eldar, sometimes as Avari.
  3. As you point out, the merging of Avarin, Nandorin and Sindarin cultures may have left the origins of Silvan obscure. (Though not necessarily so: though the English language was heavily influenced by French after 1066, linguists still regard English as a Germanic language.)
I have altered the Elvish languages diagram to reflect the difficulty of (3), and added a note.

--Mansbjorkman 11:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Realms of Beleriand

Hey, have a question. What are the Beleriand realms exactly? I think the information listed on the Beleriand article is slightly inaccurate. Here's what I know of the realms of Beleriand so far (please correct me where I might be wrong): Doriath is a given, of course. Thingol allowed the Ñoldor to establish their realms/kingdoms in Beleriand, which were Hithlum, Nargothrond, Nevrast, and the March of Maedhros. After Morgoth drove the Ñoldor out of the earlier stated realms, they settled in Ossiriand and Lindon. There is also Falas. (Estolad I would consider as a sub-realm rather than a main realm since it's within the March; Dor-lómin I would also consider as a sub-realm). But the rest listed in the article I know of our simply lands, forests, etc. I think the resouce used for that information was probably the Encyclopedia of Arda, but the Encyclopedia is not entirely accurate. —Mirlen 01:29, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, thanks CBD. I'm going to tweak the listings of Beleriand realms. Or would it be better to literally create a Wikipedia:List of Beleriand realms? What do you think? —Mirlen 00:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox Tolkien

Just letting you know that there's a new proposal of the syntax by Carcharoth here, so please share your opinion as a WP:ME participant. —Mirlen 22:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Article

Hi, I'm new here. I just created an article called the Destruction of Isengard. But is is not showning up when I type it up in the box. What do I do?Also, how do I add it to the War of the Ring campaignbox template? Thanks.--Barnikel 05:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It is still not showing up from the search box. Is there anything I have to do to make it show up? --Barnikel 18:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm....I tried clicking the Go button, but still no good. Wonder what's going on.--Barnikel 05:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the image labelling

Hi there. Thanks for the image labelling at the Middle-earth images gallery. I see you didn't manage to do them all in one go! It is really the "other" section (the last one) that I am most interested in, but looking at the key you supplied, and the licence you get when clicking on the pictures, I think I understand this whole copyright/licencing thing a litle bit more clearly. Thanks! Carcharoth 20:43, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, you did a great job collecting images so it took a while to get through them. Yeah, the license pages are usually the best bet once you know what the different categories mean, but there are always quite a few which are mis-labeled (though that usually gets corrected eventually). --CBDunkerson 00:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Middle-earth

Hi there. I was just wondering about the May roll call for WikiProject Middle-earth. I mentioned it to Mirlen before she went on her WikiBreak, and she said I should feel free to call one. Trouble is, I am going to be rather busy this weekend, and it is nearly the end of May. On the other hand, there are now 20 participants signed up and lots that could be done (or maybe people are working away on their own little areas - hard to tell). What do you think is best to do? Carcharoth 02:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll wait til June. Good idea about having the roll call separate from the participants list. This is the first place on Wikipedia that I have encountered the concept of a roll call. I was a bit taken aback at first (sounds like being back at school), but I like the idea now. Maybe rephrasing it as "active members" is a bit better. Trouble is, there will always be those names that are long-term inactive, which is why I like the idea of a "thanking past participants" bit. How should this be done? I would guess any changes would need to be discussed among active members at the WikiProject?
Another thing, is that I'm still really trying to get the hang of the ropes here and stay on top of things and keep organised. Even in what is really quite a small area of Wikipedia, I still feel that things get unmanageable very quickly. Too much spotting one thing, then moving on to something else before really finishing that thing off. Still trying to find the balance between organising, editing, reading Wikipedia content, and reading/learning Wikipedia policies and tools! Oh, and also the delicate balance between "being bold" and "forming consensus"!
Maybe the idea I saw somewhere (either the portal or the WikiProject) of agreeing on a collaboration of the week might help? Carcharoth 17:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ME reference templates

Thanks for tidying up the Simbelmyne article. I noticed that the reference style you used was to refer to the chapter, rather than the page number. This seems like a good idea, as it would avoid the messy thing with page numbers. I wonder if the book title link could be to a list of editions, or if the reference template, while giving details of one edition, could incorporate a "other editions" link - or would that contravene the house style of Wikipedia? Carcharoth 15:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes at History of Arda

Hi Conrad. Someone changed History of Arda with this edit and this edit and several subsequent ones. What I think the difference is between the terms "Years of the Valar" and "Years of the Lamps" is given at Valian Years. But the changes to History of Arda seems to contradict this. Can you give these articles the once-over again, to check they aren't saying the wring things. Thanks. Carcharoth 15:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I made the changes myself. Would you be able to check them? Thanks. Carcharoth 15:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the changes you made and added a couple other small updates. --CBD 20:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Middle earth

I could upload the images here, though I had also thought using maps based on the map currently on wikipedia. I was hoping before that a simplified map could be released under the gfdl, but since its going to have to be fair use, then it may as well use a more detailed map. --Astrokey44 15:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

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