User talk:Cataphract

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Olá cataphract. Estou impressionado com o teu trabalho na wikipedia. Uma duvida: [pɐɾ·ˈti·ɾɐ̃j] Não deveria ser [pɐɾ·ˈti·ɾɐ̃]. Isto no artigo de verbos. Tenho uma duvida sobre em [ɐ·ˈm̃ɐ·ðu]. E, o uso do ð dental, os cariocas a falar rapido tendem a criar este d. Sabes-me dizer em que situações eles ocorrem? Há autores que apenas usam um "d" sonoro normal. Outro problema é a pronuncia do R no standard Brasileiro. carro: lá é \k6Ru\? Tenta nos artigos colocar exemplos, e falar sobre as particularidades. -Pedro 13:02, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Olá e desculpa pelo atraso na resposta. Não vejo porque é que "partirem" se deveria ler conforme indicaste, esse som [ɐ̃] está presente em palavras como "rã", mas aqui temos o som [ɐ̃j] como em "mãe". Em relação à segunda questao, eu nao sou de todo especialista em fonética mas creio que esse som pode ocorrer quando entre duas vogais. Por fim, nao posso pronunciar-me acerca da pronuncia do R no Brasil mas n me consta q no exemplo indicado haja qualquer diferenca em relacao à norma europeia. --Cataphract 21:10, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Using >span<, etc. 2 Portal de Portugal 3 Wiki:pt 4 Portuguese pronouns 5 commons:User:Artefacto

[edit] Using >span<, etc.

You asked about using some html bits a while ago on Wikipedia_talk:Help. I'm removing old questions from there. Please look through the MediaWiki Handbook (on meta). It should answer your question. If not, feel free to post it again on the the Wikipedia:Help desk. JesseW 02:43, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Portal de Portugal

Já abriu o Portal de Portugal na Wikipedia! Junta-te a nós para trabalharmos em prol de artigos, listas e imagens relacionadas com Portugal. No portal, encontrarás um artigo geral, um artigo biográfico, um artigo geográfico e uma imagem todas as semanas em destaque. Para além disso estão apresentadas também secções de Notícias, Curiosidades, Listas, Citações, Opentasks, informação sobre artigos recentes, etc. Futuramente teremos um WikiProject para geografia de Portugal (de modo a estandardizar todos os artigos relativos às localidades e divisões administrativas portuguesas), história de Portugal, biografias, e possivelmente desporto. Também temos em vista a criação de uma Colaboração Semanal para artigos sobre Portugal. Por isto, e tudo mais, pedimos-te que venhas ajudar-nos. Estamos também à procura de colaboradores, por isso, se estiveres interessado, é só pedires que já estás no grupo de manutenção do portal. Saudações! Gameiro 19:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki:pt

[edit] Portuguese pronouns

Hi. I noticed that you have edited the page Portuguese pronouns recently. Unfortunately, I disagree with the changes you made, and would like to explain why.

You changed:

The personal pronouns labelled "object of preposition" above are always employed after a preposition, and most prepositions govern those pronouns, but a few of them require subjective pronouns. For example, prepositions denoting exception, such as afora, fora, excepto, menos, salvo, and tirante. In those cases, the subject pronouns eu, tu, ele, ela, eles and elas are used. Examples: "Todos foram ao cinema excepto eu/tu", "Ele referiu toda a gente excepto ele mesmo." (not "Ele referiu toda a gente excepto si").

into

The personal pronouns labelled "object of preposition" above are always employed after a preposition, and most prepositions govern those pronouns, but a few of them require subjective pronouns. For example, prepositions denoting exception, such as afora, fora, excepto, menos, salvo, and tirante. In those cases, the subject pronouns eu, tu, ele, ela, eles and elas are used. Examples: "Todos foram ao cinema excepto eu/tu", "Ele referiu toda a gente excepto ele mesmo." (not "Ele referiu toda a gente excepto si", but "Ele referiu-se a toda a gente excepto a si"", "Falaste a todos menos a mim", "Falaste com todos menos comigo" (not "com eu").

The bit you added (in bold) is not relevant to the point which was being made in this paragraph, namely, that some prepositions are followed by subjective pronouns, rather than by prepositional pronouns.

You also deleted the following:

In some cases, the direct object pronoun may take a preposition before it. For this article, it is relevant because the pronouns listed under the column "object of preposition" may actually be used as direct objects in these constructions, normally used together with the clitic pronoun, for emphasis (clitic doubling). Example: "Nunca to disse a ti porque nunca mereceste a minha confiança", "Sempre te tratei a ti como o tratei a ele", "Eles repreenderam-se a si mesmos" (here need to clear an ambiguity).

with the argument "REMOVED section "Prepositioned direct object" as it was now obsolete. anyhow, if it is to be restored, there's an error: in the first example, "te" is not a direct object".

You are right that te (to = te + o) is an indirect object, rather than a direct object in the first example, but I think this paragraph is useful, and you could have left the rest there.

Looking forward to your feedback. Regards. FilipeS 13:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

on the first point: the point was that it is just a matter of form, since those examples also denote exception. Anyway, do as you will. On the other: the table used to be organized with the headers "direct object" and "indirect object". the original point of that paragraph was that, under some circumstances (e.g. amar a Deus) , the direct object could take a preposition and one would use the prepositions listed under the other column. Since the table was reorganized (and improved, in my opinion) it wouldn't make sense to have it anymore. If the paragraph is to be restored (I think you want to have the reference to the clitic doubling), it should be rewritten and have a new header. --Cataphract 18:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Clitic doubling is a pertinent topic in Portuguese, because it's one of the few cases where a prepositional pronoun can stand for a direct object (unlike in Spanish, which has prepositioned direct objects all over the place -- and hence problems with leísmo). It's true that these issues aren't very well fleshed out in the article yet, but I think the bit you deleted may come in handy in the future, at least as a reminder that there's more to be said, if nothing else. Regards. FilipeS 20:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] commons:User:Artefacto

I confirmed I am the same user as commons:User:Artefacto --Cataphract 14:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)