Talk:Carpetbagger
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The first part seems a little embittered and anti-Northerner
As a rejoinder: The term "carpetbagger" is anti-Northerner by its very existence. It was created by Southerners to disparage Northerners who did move south to take advantage (in the neutral sense) of the Reconstruction-era political situation.
The article makes use of the external point of view ("perceived by Southerners") and certainly doesn't seem "bitter" to me. The actual diction itself might leave a little to be desired - it reads a bit like an 8th-grader's book report on the term - but I don't see the un-neutral aspect of term.
Seems pretty neutral to me Rrreese 10:39, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This should be two articles: one on the history of the term; the other on Republicans in the South, 1865-1876. The implication that carpetbagger is a fair description of Tourgée or Morgan (in the same sense it was used of Alan Keyes, for example) is unavoidably POV Septentrionalis 22:45, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Undoubtedly the term was first used as an insult, but many carpetbaggers, including Tourgee, embraced it (Tourgee once said that Jesus Christ was a carpetbagger), and we are now stuck with it. What else does one call "Northern Republicans living in the South during Reconstruction"? An analogy might be to the members of the Industrial Workers of the World. "Wobbly" was a term someone else gave them; it is now accepted by virtually everyone. I believe "Mormon" has a similar history.
- Thanks, I think you have found a fix. Septentrionalis 22:47, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
As a substantive matter, this article largely fails to address carpetbaggers in popular culture. Villainous-looking carpetbaggers make an appearance in the film version of GONE WITH THE WIND, for example.
- Please sign with 4 ~'s, even if you don't have an account; it makes discussion easier to follow. Septentrionalis 22:47, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm done with this article, though the article itself is a bit short, I think. The "Carpetbaggers in Fiction" section should probably be "Carpetbaggers in Popular Culture." Such a heading could include information about how carpetbaggers have been portrayed in school history textbooks, as well as the fact that the OSS used the codename "Carpetbagger" for secret missions using modified B-24's (which were also called "carpetbaggers") to aid local resistance groups. I know relatively little about this, and may have a few of the facts wrong, but the codename itself suggests, perhaps, that at least a few people living in the mid-twentieth century had a favorable impression of carpetbaggers.--dogcanteen
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[edit] Citations needed
The basic issue with this article is that it violates central tenets of Wikipedia: verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research.
Not one alleged fact in this article is sourced. Historiography is crucial for the credibility of this article. A brief bibliography does not substitute for sourcing within the article.
Wikipedia has standards. They are not being enforced here. This is not a whim. It is policy. This page will be flagged for the absence of specific citations. Citing sources will be a service to readers, especially student readers who will know that we enforce policy against sloppy research techniques. Skywriter 02:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Foner
After 1960 the neoabolitionist school emphasized their moral courage.
Foner et al. does a lot more than emphasize moral courage, and so I am taking it out until a more complete explanation is available. Skywriter 16:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 10,000-15,000 Confderate disenfranchised
To claim that all of these were replaced by Yanks is misleading.
Usage of this figure should be cited, and should be qualified that accurate figure is not known. Further, northerners did not fill all of the jobs in southern government. Many if not most were filled by other Southerners including blacks and whites native to the region. Skywriter 16:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Furbush?
Why is Furbush being called a carpetbagger(definition: Yankee). This article says Furbush was born in Kentucky. Is there a citation for this material? Thanks. Skywriter 06:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Historian Wintory calls Furbrush (in the title): "African-American Carpetbagger" .. Note that Wintory himself helped edit this section. Rjensen 07:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Is this an argument in favor of independent research on Wikipedia?
Your response fails to address the point that was raised. Furbush is a native of the South. Why is he being called a carpetbagger? Either the book title is in error or the definition of carpetbagger on this page is inaccurate.
That some people were falsely labeled by careless historians who were POV-pushing is precisely the point of John Hope Franklin and other historiographers. Skywriter 17:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Furbrush was from Ohio, and that makes him a carpetbagger (Kentucky where he was a small child of course was a Union state too). The fact he had been to Liberia shows he had travelled widely. The section is based on a major article in a scholarly journal, which very explictly says he was a Carpetbagger. But there is an interesting point: what about someone who moves from South Carolina to Texas. I supposethat person was called a scalawag. Rjensen 17:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Furbush was born in Kentucky, but several sources say he received his education in Ohio (see my Ark. Historical Quarterly article). I haven't found any other connections to Kentucky except that he was born there. It appears that by the time he was an adult he was living in Ohio and working as a photographer--and taking pics of Union soldiers and local women. I concluded that he had strong Northern connections--he established a family there...has children buried there. How do you classify a former slave from a non-Confederate state, who was educated in the North and travels from there to a Confederate state to establish a business and fill political offices? --Bwintor 18:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Arkansas additions
I added links to an entry I wrote for the Encyc. of Ark. History & Culture on Arkansas carpetbagger D. P. Upham, as well as a link to Ark's carpetbagger Gov., Powell Clayton.--Bwintor 16:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] incorrect Reconstruction dats
Our first sentence here claims that Reconstruction started in 1865. As any serious historian notes, Reconstruction started at least in 1863 with Lincoln's 10% plan and 1864's subsequent Wade-Davis bill. These two examples clearly demonstrate that major Civil War era politicians were considering plans for Reconstruction during the war. One could even argue that Reconstruction started in 1861 with the Sea Isles experiments off South Carolina. At any rate, to mark the start of Reconstruction from the end of the Civil War is largely off base. I'm not going to change the date until we at least have some discussion about it, but this needs to be corrected. 66.10.167.1 05:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Barak Obama Bin Laden ?? Who the hell is that?
I'm not very sure if the current first sentence "In United States history, carpetbaggers were fat lesbian Northerners..." is absolutely accurate. Later in the article, at least some of them are mentioned as businessmen, which seems to outrule the lesbism. Cut the f.l. part out. --Oop 00:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
