Talk:Carnegie Mellon University

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Contents

[edit] JFC vs. Student Senate funding

The way this is written currently makes it sound like $30,000 is all student orgs get in funding. Since it is more like $700,000 from the JFC this might want to be changed.

Student groups receives almost one million dollars from JFC funding, a bit more than $700,000. --BenjaminTsai Talk 07:23, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rankings

"Top in the fields" tends to encompass the top-10 schools. If we go by US News, http://www.cmu.edu/clips/rankings.html rankings, then public policy is among the best in the fields. Removing mention of the public policy school is vandalism.

Graduate Public Affairs -

  1. 8 overall

Criminal Justice Policy Mgmt - #1 Information and Tech Mgmt - #1

Health Policy and Mgmt - #7 Environmental Policy and Mgmt - #7 Public Policy Analysis - #4

There have been multiple times that the Public Policy has been deleted from the sentence "The public policy, computer science, computer engineering, and drama programs are considered to be among the best in their fields." Raskolnikov4138 has kept putting it back in. While one might not like it, its repeated removal is not vandalism, it is a difference of opinion. I think we need to come to concensus about what it means to be "among the best in a field". USNews ranks Public Policy departments between first and eighth in their subcategories. I would argue that "among the top in the field" should be defined as top 3 or top 5.
Even if we agree that it should be included, Public Policy should not be first in the list. It is less notable than Computer Science, for example. --Matt 02:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. Public policy is NOT more notabale than Carnegie Mellon's other stregths. But if we want to be consistant, graduate engineering is ranked "only" number 8, while computer engineering is ranked #3. How about something like:

The computer science, computer engineering, drama, and PUBLIC POLICY ANALYSIS programs are considered to be among the best in their fields.

Minus the caps, of course.

Rodion Raskolnikov


Our school CMU is mostly famous for CS, ECE and Drama. When one mentions Carnegie Mellon, Computer Science, computers and technology generally comes to mind. Let us not joke ourselves about the eminence of say the public policy program which is far outstripped by other more notable schools such as Georgetown and some of the Ivy Leagues. But, we CMU, definitely, without doubt, are number #1 when it comes to computers (still ranked number #1 and the only program in the school that is #1)! Hence we should not clutter what we are really known for with less notable academic programs. This Wikipedia entry on CMU has consistently mentioned our CS and ECE programs as top, only Rodion Raskolnikov came by recently with his Public Policy adddition. -This previously unsigned post was added on 03:09 UTC, 13 April 2006 by User:128.2.246.196
Firstly, plz sign your comments with four tildes after it. Secondly, the article is not to tell people what they already know/ is most widely known, but rather, in encyclopedic tradition, to state what is. Come to a consensus on what cut off you would like to use, or perhaps even divide into a section for each department. Please dont try to start a flame war though. Qleem 03:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Top three should be it. Let's not add IS because it a fairly undistinguished field - a Business Admin version of Computer Science, if you could say; not as intellectually rigorous as the real thing.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.66.236.205 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Note: logic is listed as #5 in the nation but this is not on the list. That is surely an academically rigorous field. So, by the preceeding arguement, it should be added.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.47.18 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
One more comment: there is no reference on the "prestige" of the drama program. How is it justified to keep this program listed while removing the others?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.47.18 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I changed the rankings paragraph to reflect general departments known for their excellence, rather than naming individual fields. All of the categories are strengths that were listed before, but my rationale for renaming the categories is that each corresponds to a division within the university; i.e. arts, business, CS, engineering, and public policy all have specific schools or colleges dedicated to them. LuoYanshan 20:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed material: Turned down offers to join Ivy League

I removed the following sentence from the article introduction. It is an unsubstantiated claim, and I have been unable to repudiate it from my research. I am highly suspicious of this claim, since it frankly sounds like gossip. Please readd this information only with reputable references noted. -- Creidieki 21:35, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

  • It is reported that the university has, on multiple occasions, turned down offers to join the Ivy League.
It is unsubstantiated gossip. Rutgers turned down an invitation. Rutgers, Army, and Navy were once rivals with the Ivy League schools before the conference was formalized. Also, CMU is a Division III school; it would have to file an application to jump to Division I, go through a probationary period and evaluations with the NCAA before it can join the Ivy League.
Rutgers never got an invitation either, obviously. It's a public mega-university that is not remotely academically compatible with the Ivy League. Omnibus 05:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Rutgers wasn't always a large state school. It was founded as the sister school of Columbia (Queen's and King's colleges, respectively) and remained a small private school up until the 1940s. Still has athletic rivalries with Princeton and Columbia in soccer, field hockey and some other sports. But financially, it was always in the shadow of the Ivies.

[edit] Battle of the Jaywalk All Stars / Jeopardy

Is she for real? On September 22, 2005, a History and Policy student named Stephanie appeared on the "Jaywalking All-Stars" segment of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. She's scheduled to appear again on September 23, 2005.

Note: She, of course, was just acting. It was TV.

Also on TV, Carnegie Mellon junior ECE major Kermin Elliott Fleming won the 2004 Jeopardy College Championship.

  • Kermin's final wager was 1337. And he's from Kentucky. And he lives in Webster Hall. I only write this because I feel important, since my friend is his roommate.

[edit] Guest Speakers

Various authors, activists, scholars, politicians, business leaders, and other notable people have given speeches at Carnegie Mellon over the years. Among them:

[edit] Wireless

"The campus was the first educational institution in the world to be completely covered by a wireless network."

Probably true, but not proven. Buena Vista University and Drexel University claim to be the first completely wireless campuses. Carnegie Mellon does not make this claim. Buena Vista, Drexel, and CMU completed campus-wide coverage by the fall of 2000. However, Drexel did not make their dormitories accessible before making their claim. So CMU most likely was ahead of Drexel despite Drexel's (arguably misleading) claim. CMU's Wireless Andrew covered its campus by the time it completed a major upgrade in August 2000. Initial research and experimentation by CMU began in 1994, even before WiFi standards were developed.

Some elementary schools, high schools, private schools, etc. had complete wireless networks before Carnegie Mellon did. (Look at the wording of the original statement. It should mention "post-secondary.")

[edit] Pittsburgh Universities template

Do we really want to put the Pittsburgh Universities template at the bottom of the the Carnegie Mellon page? It's an eyesore, contributes no information for people interested in reading about Carnegie Mellon, and does not appear on any other non-Pittsburgh major university pages I've visisted. --BenjaminTsai 20:34, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it looks fairly ridiculous. Omnibus 05:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I developed the Pittsburgh Universities box . . . if you wish to submit proposals for its streamlining I'm all for it, possibly just majors to majors, smallers to smallers, but I feel that the Pittsburgh box is much more neccessary then the "conference" box . . . Tartans deal more with the city of Pittsburgh and Pitt, Duquesne, and Carlow students then they do with "conference" schools. The Pittsburgh box should be visible, if not I see no need for a conference box, Carnegie Mellon is not a "sports" school on the national scene it adds nothing to people trying to read about Carnegie Mellon. Knowing that Pittsburgh has a wealth of university students and the cooperative nature between Pitt and CMU is much more relevant then a sports conference. Ideas about how to better streamline the box are welcomed but the box is much much more relevant then linking to a school that competes in lacrosse with the Tartans. Hholt01 06:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
The issue is that the template is huge, and the yellow is really glaring. Plus, Carnegie Mellon is a national university - it relates more to MIT more than Duff's Business Institute. I argue that the Carnegie Mellon article is more a destination article than one would surf through looking at Pittsburgh colleges. If we want to say Carnegie Mellon works with Pitt and Duquesne, that should be a feature in the article, instead of adding a huge Pittsburgh Universities box at the bottom --Matt 20:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I recently readded it (without checking if such a discussion existed), because I found such information useful. I found it in University of Pittsburgh, when I was looking at other schools in Pittsburgh, and I would not have had to look at all (through Pittsburgh etc.) it had been here originally. But yes, the colour could be changed. -- Rmrfstar 20:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Check out template:Colleges and universities in metropolitan Boston. I think it does a good job with putting 25 Universities in a small box while being smaller and more in line with the color themes of Wikipedia. I'd be alright with a box like that for major & minor schools in Pittsburgh. --Matt 06:52, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Association of Independent Technological Universities template

Querying "Association of Independent Technological Universities" site:cmu.edu on Google gives no results - it seems like such a minor thing that it doesn't seem important in Carnegie Mellon's article. I move to remove it remove it - what do others think? (Actually, searching around more for this, I get almost no information on this organization. I don't think it's worth including.) --Matt 06:26, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mascot

The official Carnegie Mellon identity page says "From the informal mascot, the Scottie dog". I would say this should be the source - though in other places, The Tartan is listed - but nothing in such an official or vetted place. I say we leave it as Scottie Dog --Matt 04:36, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I disgree on this one, I wish I had a better link but Carnegie Mellon's Qatar admissions materials refers to the mascot as the Tartan. Given how often I've heard that during my years, I'm going to go with it. Bugg42 00:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
From The Word (Student Affairs' guide book to student life) "The squad also includes the Scottie Dog, Carnegie Mellon’s mascot." --Matt 01:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
The Tartan "Snapshots from the slopes. The ski season turned out to be challenging and unpredictable, highlighted by an appearance of the Tartans’ mascot, the Scottie Dog." (Page 11)
The Carnegie Pulse " Carnegie Mellon's mascot, the Scottie Dog, put in his two cents by grabbing a pen and paper: "
There's a difference between the team name and the mascot sometimes - and this is one of those times. --Matt 15:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Here's a picture of Scottie Dog at the 2005 Homecoming football game (pic). (Source: this blog entry.) - Slo-mo 07:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

As of right now, there is no official mascot [1], although people are definitely hard at work trying to establish one. [2] *shrug* So I added a tag of "unofficial" to the Scottie Dog entry. -Fuzzy 19:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Saw that the other day, meant to update the article. Thanks for doing this --Matt 23:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carnegie Mellon West

There is a new west coast campus in Mountain View, CA. Is anyone planning on adding a section for this? I think at least a link should be added to their website: link

There's a mention of the Silicon Valley campus with a link to Carnegie Mellon University (West) in the article - maybe a section would be appropriate, but it is mentioned, and a stub exists. I think both should be expanded. --Matt 06:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] subtrivial trivia

I have removed a list of subtrivial trivia such as "In a 1999 episode (Lovers' Walk, Season 3, Episode 8) of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Joyce (Buffy's mother) says to Buffy, Carnegie Mellon has a wonderful design curriculum." and "In The West Wing episode "Eppur Si Muove" (Season Five), Ellie Bartlet's diplomas can be found on a wall; the bottom one is a B.S. from Carnegie Mellon." in an article about a university. To me that seems like the sort of outrageous stuff someone would make up to parody Wikipedia. Such inclusions in serious articles are completely and totally inappropriate, and they reduces the credibility of the project overall. Build a Carnegie Mellon University in popular culture if you must, but don't put material like that in the article. --Gmaxwell 18:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I don't really care enough to revert any more, but I'd like to state for the record that I disagree with you. I ask that you consider the possibility that the Wikipedia community might not agree with you in all cases on what Wikipedia is or is not, especially given that the section you object to has been in the article for a year and a half, and you're the only person (as far as I've seen) who has seen fit to try to remove it in that time (and were immediately reverted by two diffferent people, one being me). I can cite several other examples of articles (two on prominent universities and one other) with "in fiction" sections, but frankly I'm hesitant to give you the opportunity to go remove those. User:Glenn Willen (Talk) 16:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I have reinserted the references in popular culture. They reflect the outside world's portrayal of Carnegie Mellon and its reputation, thus inclusion is justified. A few items have been deleted. I deleted the manga reference because many can argue that manga is not "popular" (as in "popular culture"). I deleted the Chasing Amy reference because it was not included in the final cut of the film. Hopefully others will view this as a fair compromise. Any further deletions of this section may result in a request for administrative review. I assert that the section is verifiable and worthy of inclusion. - Slo-mo 23:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Moved to its own article. Case closed. --Matt 23:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
        • "University X in fiction/literature or popular culture" sections are found in several university-related articles on the Wikipedia, e.g. the Harvard, Cambridge, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, and Oxford articles. Since the wiki-community seems to think such a section does not belong in the CMU page, I wonder if the same should apply also to other university-related pages.
It might be a good idea to bring that topic up on those pages. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 01:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I think the trivia people are driving at the root issue: the article is too big, and every organization with someone who knows how to edit wikipedia has an entry on the main page. I spent a very involved 4 years at Carnegie Mellon and I haven't heard of the debate team or Awareness of Roots in Chinese Culture club.

I believe that the article should be cleaned up. Organizations should go in their own article. I don't think misc.market needs that much detail. Movies filmed at Carnegie Mellon should be in its own category or its own article.

I'll try and clean it up this weekend if I can, but the article is in serious need of help. --Matt 18:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the student organizations should be either heavily gutted, or split into its own article. I'm not convinced that the debate team, society of hispanic engineers, or CMU Originals are "notable" student organizations.
I also don't think that cmu.misc.market is appropriately labeled as a 'tradition' up there with Buggy, Booth, etc.
Thoughts? --Matt 16:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
You are right. The student organizations overwhelms the article and detracts from the overall quality. I gave it its own page with a prominent link.
The article in general has been gutted since I viewed it about six months ago. While the student orgs page creation is a good move, there's a lot that was useful that was here that is now gone. I haven't been around to watch, so I don't know what happened, but I think that a lot of things should be restored. We used to have an article that didn't require cleanup, and now we have one that does. Greyscale 13:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A seemingly new article

I, Raskolnikov have just finished cleaning up the article. It still obviously needs hours and hours of work to improve. But I think I improved the article and its organization. I hope my fellow Wikipedians---and CMUers---support it.

So far, so good --Matt 00:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ver

My bro goes to Carnegie Mellon. He says the history of the university involves that in the early years, every student was required to work regular shifts in the power plant shoveling coal. Also, the buildings were built on slopes such that in case the university failed, the buildings could be be converted into a gravity assisted assembly line production factory.

Can anyone verify this?

They say the thing about gravity assist on the student tour. I don't know about verification for the article though --Matt 02:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I also heard the gravity assist thing on the tour, although only about one building with a huge slanting hallway. also heard about the powerplant on the tour. Qleem 02:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I have heard it asserted that the gravity assist bit is bullshit. (They do say it on the tour, though.) Don't know about the coal shoveling. User:Glenn Willen (Talk) 18:38, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
KGB asserts that the gravity assist bit is BS, yes. (AFAIK, mainly because real assembly lines don't use sloping hallways. Which makes sense to me; what would you be doing, rolling things down them? What if you needed to stop the assembly line in an emergency?)  I, too, have heard that engineering students had to shovel coal for the power plant, and I think it may be true; but I don't know how it could be verified, short of finding a Carnegie Tech grad and asking him. --Quuxplusone 05:50, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually only the main hallway slopes, each room off to the side is flat. Presumably the piece would be rolled down from room to room. Qleem 18:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The gravity thing has to be bull, considering that the first building built with sloping hallways was Doherty Hall (1908). Porter Hall (1906) could easily have been built with the same sloping hallways, especially given its terrain. Brad
The gravity assisted assembly line can't be true. If so, why is ground leveled before factories are built on it? I'm pretty sure the real reason Baker and Doherty have sloping hallways is because they're built on sloped ground. It seems like Occam's Razor applies here. --Decrypt3 00:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
It is an urban legend, about as silly as rubbing Hamerschlag's nose. Greyscale 05:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CMU name

Anon user, please stop removing notice of the CMU name conflict with Central Michigan. I notice you've also been tweaking their page and the disambig page with a very point of view perspective. Not that I should have to make this argument, but I'm another Carnegie-Mellon person, and it's not cool that we be seen as self-satisfied punks. In any case, it's not good for the encyclopedia to take this stuff away. --Improv 15:04, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Please don't think I'm trying to add fuel to the fire, here, but Carnegie Mellon did in fact lose a trademark court battle with Central Michigan over the use of 'CMU', and as such no longer uses it anywhere in their literature. Not that this has stopped 98% of the student body from calling it CMU anyway. I agree that the link to Central Michigan should stay, and added a note about the court battle to the introduction. --Bcordes 21:47, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
This is Carnegie Mellon University's official policy regarding the use of its name:
When referring to Carnegie Mellon in text, use "Carnegie Mellon University" for your first mention. All subsequent mentions should be stated as "Carnegie Mellon. ... NEVER use the acronym "CMU" (or "CM") in printed materials. It is counterproductive to use an acronym that is not recognized by audiences outside the university community. [3]

CMU is an unofficial acronym for Carnegie Mellon University. One the school has lost to Central Michigan. The article should not use CMU to describe anything about Carnegie Mellon, unless it's in the name of an organization. We need to make clear when we list CMU as something people call Carnegie Mellon that it is unofficial and unsanctioned by the college. I tried to pick the least wordy phrase I could come up with - but we can't say "Carnegie Mellon University - or CMU". I refer to it as CMU often too - but we should not on Wikipedia. [4] --Matt 11:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that, amusingly, the document you just linked to is on the Carnegie Mellon website — www.cmu.edu. Nandesuka 12:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
OK then let's just rip it out totally. That phrase doesn't really serve any purpose anyway, except to provoke debate. Qleem 19:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I also probably shouldn't have removed this from the talk page when I cleaned it up a couple months ago - this discussion should probably remain on the talk page while people still call Carnegie Mellon CMU --Matt 20:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Movies shot at CMU

I remember seeing once a really bad low-budget movie (maybe a made-for-TV movie, I'm not sure) that was shot at CMU, but is not mentioned in the Movies filmed at Carnegie Mellon University article. It was about a female Secret Service agent in charge of protecting an African-American senator who was running for POTUS and was subsequently shot and killed in a hotel room. The actual story took place several months (years ?) after the assassination when that agent (now retired from the Secret Service) was living in Pittsburgh and dating an English professor from a fictional local university whose location happens to coincide with the CMU campus. Has anybody else seen that movie or does anybody remember its name ? 200.177.2.49 03:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

This past fall the movie Smart People was shot on campus for several weeks in late October/early November, and again for a week in December. The story follows a widower English Professor openly stated to be a member of the CMU faculty, and his personal life as he finds a new love. Dennis Quaid plays the English professor, and Sarah Jessica Parker is the female lead, his newfound love. 76.18.209.17 03:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)nodono01

[edit] Contemporary Carnegie Mellon

The Contemporary Carnegie Mellon section contains an entire paragraph of repeated information.

Also, the section is FAR too limited, as only a very limited spectrum of the contemporary conditions of Carnegie Mellon is accounted for. If you are going to list rankings, why not list ALL rankings, rather than focus on a selective few departments. I can list a BUNCH of other programs/departments in this university that are in the top 10:

  • Heinz School ranked 8th overall (Public Policy Analysis 4th, Environmental Policy 7th, Health Policy 7th) by US News
  • Psychology Ph.D ranked 9th (Cognitive Psych 2nd, Experimental Psych 5th, Behavioral Neuroscience 12th, Developmental Psych 12th) by US News.
  • Bachelor of Architecture ranked 9th by Design Intelligence [5].
  • MFA program ranked 10th (Multimedia/Visual Communications 2nd, Industrial Design 3rd*, Graphic Design 6th) by US News (*and Design Intelligence). And its pretty much common knowledge that the Acting, Musical Theatre and Directing programs in the School of Drama are among probably the top two or three in the country.

Beyond rankings, there is certainly much more pertinent information to add to this section. The school seems to be getting a lot of national press lately. An entire subsection could probably be written about the recent architecture and art installations that have completely veered off course from the appearance of the rest of campus. There are other items of importance too, I just can't think about them right now.

This section also seems to overlap with the Organization section (the academic units of the university may also count in this section). I think a slight overhaul is in order.

Sinisterminister 22:02, 9 September 2006 (EST)

It should be also mentioned that, in Philosophy, CMU is ranked # 1 in Mathematical Logic and, I guess, top 3 in Philosophy of Mathematics and top 5 in Philosophy of Science. 161.24.19.82 12:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alumni

There is no list of famous alumni.--Gkklein 22:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there a significant gap between and List of Carnegie Mellon University people? --Matt 15:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
As a matter of readability, I think that there should be a short list of exceptionally notable alumni (and faculty!) on the CMU main page. The List of Carnegie Mellon University people is long, bloated and hard to get through; I know there are concerns about the main CMU article's own readability, but alumni and faculty are worthy topics to include. LuoYanshan 19:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to the article recently

I checked this article a few months back, and there was a lot more information on it that I found of interest that has since been deleted, or moved and apparently not linked to. I would very much like to see the information on student organizations come back; organizations like Scotch 'n' Soda, for instance, have graduated people like Steven Schwartz and are quite well-known. I can see why we might not want all this on one page, but there *should* be a page for it. Greyscale 05:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Check out the discussion to delete the two articles that I remember being split out: Carnegie Mellon in popular culture and Movies Filmed at Carnegie Mellon. I don't remember what happened to the student organization article. The problem with student organizations is defining the cutoff point for which are listed in the main article. --Matt 15:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carnegie Mellon in popular culture

Why has this section been deleted ? It's a standard section in all college/university articles on the Wikipedia. 200.177.31.242 13:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

If we followed the standard Wikipedia template, both "Carnegie Mellon in popular culture/fiction" and "notable student organizations" would have to be restored. It looks like the CMU article has been significantly downgraded.
I don't understand this logic. This section should be restored if it hasn't been already. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not actually sure it should be restored. Check out WP:TRIV. I actually find the section interesting, but it seems that Carnegie Mellon in popular culture might be fairly close to a Trivia section. What's your take? --Matt 03:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Go ahead and delete then similar "trivia" sections in the Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Berkeley, Duke, Cambridge, Oxford, etc. articles !

[edit] Programs & Schools

My apologies to whoever made the old table of schools, but I think its purpose is better served with a concise listing of colleges as well as research institutes... notes about the college's founding and name should belong either in the college's own article or in the history section. As far as highlighting the good programs at CMU, I suggest -- although I don't have the time right now -- that we discuss the various departmental strengths in the Schools & Divisions section, instead of trying to cram noteworthy programs into the rankings section. As my note below indicates, I've already consolidated the programs mentioned in Rankings. LuoYanshan 20:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

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