Talk:Carlos Gardel

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I've corrected "Veinte años no es nada" translation - it was "Twenty years is nothing" and it means exactly the opposite!

It can be interpreted both ways, but since the tango goes: "sentir que es un soplo la vida, que 20 años no es nada.." its clear that it means "twenty years is nothing". -Mariano 10:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Montevideo and the birth of tango

This page is bound to be jealously edited by Orientals... but giving Montevideo credit for the birth of tango would be a gross mistake. Please name Uruguayan tangos circa 1905, when Buenos Aires already had El entrerriano, El choclo, El apache argentino...... elpincha 22:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Talking of "jealousy" when discussing cultural issues is not a good starting point. One of the pioneers of tango, and the first bringing Tango to Europe (in the 1890's) was the Uruguayan Alfredo Gobbi Sr. (father of the Argentinean born director and violinist Alfredo Gobbi). SEVERAL of the earliest tango musicians were Uruguayan, the first record of La Cumparsita was made by the Uruguayn orchestra Minotto-Alonso, etc, etc, etc. Arguing against the double birth of tango in Buenos Aires AND Montevideo is something just nationalistic "amateurs" (from both sides) do. Scholars have accecpted this fact for a long time. Elbio Barilari

[edit] Nationality

Several users (mostly anons) are changing Gardel's nationallity from Argentine to Uruguayan at the beggining of the article. Though it is disputed wheather Gardel was born in France, Uruguay (or even Argentina), it is clear he was an Argentine citizen; he held Argentine documents (Cedula de Identidad, Libreta de Enrolamiento, passport, etc). Thus, I suggest we either leave the previous version on the disputes (Argentine tango singer during the inter-war years, though his birth-place has been largely disputed.) or remove the nationality from the opening paragraph all together, yet I believe it is imperative to name Argentine as his place of recidence, since he spent most of his time there, and is were he grew to become a star. Mariano(t/c) 10:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the most recent edit and now it says he was raised in Argentina, where he spent most of his life. That should leave everyone happy. Wesborland 12:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Uruguay-born part is somehow controversial, since the birthplace is still an issue. Perhaps in Uruguay people already believe the controversy to be over, but people elsewere might have a different view on the topic. I suggest you take a look at, for instance this (in French), this, this (English) pages, or even the Wikipedia article on Toulouse. I guess then that not everyone would be happy... Mariano(t/c) 12:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The Toulouse article doesn't have Gardel on their "notorious births and deaths" list. As for the other site you mention, Berthe Gardes seemed to be his adoptive mother and Gardel apparently forged his last will to make her his biological one so that she could inherit him (according to argentine laws at the time, it makes sense). That's how the controversy was born in the first place. I'll add more info on the french versio, the documents they have and Berthe Gardes once I'm through with some research I was doing. Wesborland 22:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I was not defending the validity of those sites, just trying to show you that is not a consensed fact that he was born in Uruguay.

The Toulouse article affirms, in the Culture section, that "Carlos Gardel (Charles Gardes) was born in Toulouse in 1890 and his house is still in city.". I'm not sure why your removed the birth-year duality with the corresponding link to the Controversy section; I think that is really necesary. What's more, we could even use a format such as

Carlos Gardel' (11 December (1887 in Valle Edén or 1890 in Toulouse¹) – 24 June 1935)

could be used.

By the way, don't forget to fill the edit summary when editing a page with a description of your edits and their reasons. Mariano(t/c) 09:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I find this allegations of both Argentineans and Uruguayans ridiculous. Gardel was born in France, as per other encyclopdedias, and his birth certificates. I came to open this article because I was curious to check if some Riverplaters would be vandalising (yes, vandalising I said it) this article. I lived in Uruguay for 6 years and I must say that allegations that he was born in Tacuarembó can only convince the "orientales". The so called birth certificate is very dubious. I propose this article to be locked until these people take a chill pill. --Pinnecco 13:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The matter of his birth is somewhat overrated here. Nobody, except uruguayans think that he was born there. It is more or less a known fact -to every serious scholar that has studied Gardel- that he forged an uruguayan nationality to evade military service. I think that the "controversy" should be stated in the real terms of it; that is, that uruguayans say that he was born in Uruguay, but mostly the rest of the world believe he was born in France. Nazroon 04:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ¿Certificate?

This image isn´t the uruguayan birth certificate. As the article says, it's the

registration at the Uruguayan embassy in Argentina in 1920. You can see this in the document, where says the date "8 de octubre de 1920".--24.232.95.194 00:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)