Talk:Capital punishment in Singapore

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Capital punishment in Singapore has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

I have removed from the article:

"Interestingly, Singapore's ex-prime minister Lee Kuan Yew, despite being a staunch advocate of capital punishment, stated in the second volume of his memoirs that having been raised by a violent father, he could not stomache the thought of using the cane on his own children and found that a stern verbal rebuke was usually sufficient."

I wonder why this is a) "interesting" and b) relevant to the article on capital punishment. Evil Monkey - Hello 04:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I was shocked to think that this happened today to Van. I don't see what contribution this made to humanity or to being civilised.

I think the section removed above is both very interesting and very relevant. He does not condone corporal punishment in the home (or possibly school), and yet condones death by hanging. His views are those of a man who shaped Singapore's political stance on the right of a Government to kill, the ultimate in intimidation and violence, and to do this at the hightest rate per population than any other country. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Garrison Roo (talk • contribs) .

Most countries in South East Asia and East Asia have capital punishment for drug trafficking which has wide public acceptance, due to the harmful social effect of drug abuse and proximity to Golden Triangle. This context is more relevant in understanding the laws and politics than how Lee Kuan Yew disciplined his children. --Vsion 04:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I dont see whats so shocking about his plight. He, as well as everyone else, knows what will happen to him should he be caught for drug trafficking anyway, so whats news? This aside, I similarly wonder what a political leader's personal views on how he brings up children can have on a nation's policies. He may be a highly influencial politician in Singapore, but he alone does not determine every policy or law.--Huaiwei 04:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

To 165.118.9.17 (Talk | Contributions): please stop reverting to the version with the above removed text, unless you can propose another reason for its retention on this page. — Kimchi.sg | Talk 05:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I feel the removed text is very relevent and speaks for itself, as has been noted above. I am interested to know why you feel it is necessary to delete it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.118.9.17 (talk • contribs) .

You have not noted replies by Huaiwei and Vsion, viz: Singapore has had capital punishment for a long time, even before LKY. And that one politician does not single-handedly decide policies in a country, not in SG at least. — Kimchi.sg | Talk 05:43, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

An anecdote that might be appropriate to this discussion. According to a History Channel documentary on English hangmen, one of them (can't remember exactly who now) couldn't kill chickens to eat, but could send people to the deaths on the gallows. Evil Monkey - Hello 05:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

(Response to 165.118.9.17, with edit conflict) I find it paradoxical that you think it is paradoxical with the way LKY discipline his children. The law is suppose to protect the weaker ones in society. The heavy punishment for drug trafficking serve to the protect potential drug addicts who are mostly minors and may make the misguided decisions to take drugs. Adult drug traffickers, on the other hand, are fully aware of the societal harms of their action and the harsh punishment they would face if caught. They, as adults, are responsible for their action. On this note, Lee's behavior is consistent. We may oppose capital punishment in principles, but please don't compare Van to a kid. --Vsion 06:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses. I see that my entry has resulted in some passionate response to this issue, as would be expected. Firstly, I did not suggest that Singapore has not had capital punishment for a long time; indeed, I acknowledged that it was originally introduced by the British.

Also, as a health care professional I can assure you I am well aware of the harm that illegal drugs cause to the world’s society. Neither did I specifically state that one politician is responsible for single-handedly deciding policy in Singapore. However, Lee Kuan Yew has, and still does, wield considerable authority and power in the Singapore government, and his opinions therefore carry an enormous influence on policy decision making. He is on record as supporting the use of capital punishment.

With all due respect, I still believe that it is hypocritical for Mr Lee to advocate the use of capital punishment and the rottan, whilst admitting that he could not bring himself to cane his own children.

To those who advocate the death penalty ( and I wish to point out that I am still personally undecided on the issue), think carefully about how you would feel if it were your own child going to the gallows.

P Kitchen Perth, Western Australia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.118.9.17 (talk • contribs) .

Hmm... methinks this is not the place to divide ourselves over our opinions on the death penalty.

Even if the removed statement is true, I still would not consider it noteworthy to be included in the article — it is still just a statement on one politician, after all. And the article is not about him proper. — Kimchi.sg | Talk 08:36, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps you are right. It is perhaps out of context. I did not intend to cause any offence. My apologies for any misunderstandings.

Sincerely PK —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.118.9.17 (talk • contribs) .

Offense of not, you views reflect a common perception that Lee views somehow have extensive influence on Singaporean policies to the point that it is supposedly a reflection of himself. I would like to stress for the record, that there has been countless cases in which things didnt go the way he would have liked. Younger ministers do handle issues with or without his blessings. Irregardless of how the press likes to put it, Singapore is not an extreme example of North Korea.

Meanwhile, you state "he is on record as supporting the use of capital punishment.". I would like examples to demonstrate this. Also, do you have evidence to show his view is not reflective of general opinions in Singapore?--Huaiwei 12:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

The worst thing is that in the case of Nguyen, Singapore authorities do not believe in rehabilitation, but only vengeance and in Mr. Lee's case, it is extremely hypocritical would do something to another man's child which he would not do to his own. God Bless Nguyen's family.--69.231.237.71 04:08, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

It is not about vengeance, deterence is the main reason behind the harsh punishment. If you don't get the reason correct, you are just torturing yourself mentally. Wonder why 47% of Austrialians support the execution? For your own sake, even if you oppose the dealth penalty, please try to understand the situation. --Vsion 04:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Singapore shows hardly any mercy for drug traffickers, that is true. But to equate that to the general impression that Singapore does not believe in rehabilitation, and to say it is hypocritical in relation to how Lee deals with his children is at best a clumsy pairing exercise. Lee is not responsible for every case which ends with a death sentence here, you think far too highly of him.--Huaiwei 07:14, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Singapore's decision in regard to this case is certainly understandable, given it's well publicised laws on drug trafficking; the question is, is it morally right? I think we could be arguing for eternity on the pros and cons regarding this issue. Lee has stated in his own memoirs his support for capital punishment. As for evidence regarding the views of the Singapore population regarding this issue, I have none. However, even if they were opposed to the decision, i find it highly unlikely it would have influenced the Sg govt. to change it's mind. On that point, Lee has also expressed in his memoirs his low opinion of public opinion polls, and I again I would find it unlikely that the current PM would hold a different view.

PK West Aust.

Debate on this issue has spilled over to the Hanging page, with a non-NPOV section added on Singapore.155.69.5.235 01:38, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Law Society review

The Law Society of Singapore has set up a committee to review death penalty in Singapore [1]. Is this a significant development? I only have access to the online news reports, so I wonder if your guys have any comment or special insight on this. --Vsion 23:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that it should be mentioned in the article. The review might not change anything, but if for nothing else, it does show that they at least study the alternatives. Bjelleklang - talk 23:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality?

I don't think that this article has a very neutral view on capital punishment in Singapore.

Many people think that execution is disgusting and post that on the article but isn't Wikipedia an encyclopedia, not a weblog for you to post your views? Plus, why target Singapore? If execution is so horrible, go to the execution page.

Lee Kuan Yew has nothing to do with this. How does a leader's method in raising his children relate to capital punishment of people that are over 18 (and not pregnant) and have committed serious crimes? Maybe to others drug dealing doesn't affect you but the Singaporean government probably thinks differently.

Sure, it is really harsh to take one's life, but is it nesscesary to critisize LKY or SG? Wikipedia's here to give facts, not rally on human rights. This just isn't the right place.

--Deon 13:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)