Talk:Canis

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Canis is the Genus name of a group of animals that includes the dog the wolf. So it is wrong to redirect.

Contents 1 "Advanced" ? 2 MSW 3 3 Thanks! 4 Classification Order

[edit] "Advanced" ?

What does it mean that a genus is "advanced" ? Tjunier 08:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

It has a number of derived characters; its morphology is far from its ancestors' morphology. Ucucha (talk) 14:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MSW 3

With regards to the ongoing (nearly) edit war, I'd like to provide my sources. I'm using the following reference:

Wilson, D. E., and Reeder, D. M. (eds) Mammal Species of the World, 3rd edition, Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 0-801-88221-4.

They recognize the Red Wolf as a subspecies of C. lupus, because it's probably a hybrid. They don't yet want to recognize C. lycaon. C. pallipes is a subspecies of lupus since about a century, probably. So, please delete them. Ucucha (talk) 09:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

If you want to use your oft-quoted "Big Book of Mammals" in order to classify which species you consider to be a Canis and which species you don't consider a Canis, don't just ERASE things from the article. Your prior edit paffled a good chunk of the article!

I've taken the two lupus subs and placed them underneath the other Gray Wolf lupus subspecies. When it comes to an article this short, especially one so short it needs a stub, if you see something that needs classification or whatnot, Don't just REMOVE the thing from the article, for the love of Pete. Never Cry Wolf 11:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I think a genus article serves to list species, not subspecies. I'm removing species from the article that are not species according to the most authoritative current source on mammal taxonomy.

Another interesting reference is http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/Biology/VHAYSSEN/msi/pdf/i0076-3519-037-01-0001.pdf. It indicates the distribution of C. l. pallipes to be about Turkey to India. It seems MSW is using about the same taxonomy.

If you think subspecies should be included in this article, please add them. If you want, I can send you the MSW list for Canis, so that you can also add subspecies for the other species (especially latrans has lots of them). Ucucha (talk) 14:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

When there is a conflict of sources, the thing to do is keep both and point out the conflict. Keep the disputed subspecies, but say that "Big Book of Mammals" disputes them. Coyoty 01:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

If you can provide an authoritative source for an alternative taxonomy... (and that's not a century-old dictionnary) Ucucha (talk) 05:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

You mean a source besides the roughly 9,530 results that any given search for the subspecies brings up? Pallipes is a subspecies of the Grey Wolf- we should classify it with the other G.W. subs that were listed, like the common dog and the Red Wolf. Unless you are proposing the removal of all wolf subspecies from the stub? Never Cry Wolf 05:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll also add the other subspecies from MSW 3. I have never meant to dispute pallipes ' subspecies status; I'm sorry if you thought so. Ucucha (talk) 06:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Because Ucucha was kind enough to lay down the subspecies foundations (thanks a bundle Ucucha), I've begun to put them into a small formatted table for easy reference. Any comments would be appreciated. Cheers! Never Cry Wolf 07:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Subspecies table is complete! Now comes the fun part- you see all those little red words? Each one is a poor, neglected Wolf article in need of care. So... starting tomorrow that's my next project. Huzzah! Never Cry Wolf 08:48, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's better to move mesomelas, simensis and dirus below adustus and split lupus into a few columns. That'll make the article look better, I think. In any case, the table is better than the long list it was before :). Ucucha (talk) 09:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The table needs to be disambiguated. The Latin names are usually redirects, which should be avoided to improve system performance. The links should be in the format [[Article Title|Latin name]], or use both the common name and Latin name with only the common name linked to the article title. (Linking the Latin name would be redundant.) Coyoty 00:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Fixing redirects doesn't make much of a difference (see Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups/About fixing redirects) for server performance, though I agree it is better (because Special:Recentchangeslinked is otherwise broken and for a couple of other reasons). However, I don't have common names for all the subspecies. Maybe you can look for them. Ucucha (talk) 07:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

It's on my to-do list, guys. I took Easter off when it comes to major Wikipedia editing, but I should be able to get the table organization project (with common names) finished this week. Basically it's a matter of moving mesomelas, simensis and dirus below adustus, splitting lupus into a few columns, and then attaching the common names to the front. Never Cry Wolf 08:09, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Classification Order

Right now the order is alphabetized by latin, but I think organizing by common name might look better...

How does
Coyote
Dire Wolf
Ethiopian Wolf
Grey Wolf

Black Jackal
Golden Jackal
Side Striped Jackal

Look?
Never Cry Wolf 01:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC)