Talk:Candomblé
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[edit] confused sources
The sources I have found seem quite confused about the classification and description of nations etc., and do not agree with each other. One source says four nations, the other three; one says that nation A came from X, the other says Y... Expert help is sorely needed! Jorge Stolfi 07:06, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
OK, some tentative conclusions: the major nations MUST have separate pages because they have similar but not identical pantheons, different names for them, different hierarchies and functions in the rituals, etc. (Most of the detail which I have added today to the page turns out to be specific to the Ketu nation and may not apply to the other two). Perhaps one could put here a table showing the (imperfect) correspondence between Orixas (Ketu), Voduns (Jeje), and Inkices (Bantu), and an overview of the common points; but all else should go to the nation-spcific pages. Jorge Stolfi 08:17, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
heh, a significant part of this religion is secretive. the experts *don't* help, and those who understand it best have gained their understanding from oral tradition, with slight variations, and so its near impossible to assemble some kind of Candomble bibliography. the religion is decentralised, and while tradition is highly venerated, the individual has always been respected in a way that assures your sources, while repeating faithfully every word of what they were taught, could still give conflicting reports. to quote the haitians who have a similar laissez faire approach to religious authority: "Chak houngan, houngan lakay li" - each Houngan/Manbo is in his/her own house. there's an old consensus that people can disagree about particulars without anyone being *wrong*, so long as they don't try and force one understanding on everybody else. heh, this live and let live attitude is going to make Orisha worship rather less than uniform, and all the more difficult to study.--Feralnostalgia 05:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] are they the same YORUBA AND CANDOMBLE
is this language have anything to do with yoruba's people in Nigeria. or what? please explain that. the reason why i say this is that some of the name of dieties mentioning in here, have something to do with nigeria myth one way or the order, or i should just say it's nigeria history.
- I can't give you a definitive answer, but as I understand it, candomblé is a syncretic religion assembled from Catholicism and the native religions of various African tribes. In particular it is partly based on the religion of the Yoruba people (who, I think, lived in what is now Nigeria). It has also undergone changes as a result of many generations of repression designed to suppress African culture in Brazil. For example, many of the words in candomblé rituals are thought to be from the Yoruba language, but after being passed down by many generations who didn´t speak Yoruba, some are unrecognizable. --Andrew 09:09, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
as I understand it each nation has its own liturgical language, and that's one of the main distinguishing features between them. the Yoruba still *do* live in Nigeria, by the way, they're one of the largest ethnic groups in the country. I've heard of american Candomblieros going to Nigeria to be initiated. it's still considered as a sort of "motherland", and everyone I've talked to acknowledges that our roots are there. Even in Africa there was syncretism between the neighboring tribes, the Yoruba borrowing from the Dahomey and so on, so while we can definitively say 'west africa', it's hard to pin down. by its nature Candomble really cannot be 'pinned down'.
also, I'd say it wasn't so much "assembled" from Catholicism as it was veneered with it. there isn't much of catholic theology that managed to seep into it. some praxis, but very little theology. there's also a significant element of Native American spirituality, particularly in Candomble and Haitian Voudoun, though not as strongly in Cuban Santeria - the "Cabaclos", or spirits of Native American dead, are venerated as helpers of Oxossi.--Feralnostalgia 04:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] in the "Beliefs" section
"The spirits (except the supreme Olorum) are "incorporated" by priests during Candomblé rites."
The word "incorperated" in the above sentence does not make particular sense to me, since I most often hear this word used to mean "form a corperation, as in business or the marketplace". I don't think I'm alone in this, although my dictionary does inform me that it also means "embody" ... how about replacing this word with "channelled" or "embodied"? J Lorraine 07:55, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Bantu
There are a few references to "bantu" language or religion, as though it referred to an ethnic group like 'Yoruba' or 'Fon' rather than a broader category - a family of ethnic and language groups. It's analogous to referring to "Indo-European" religion or language as a single entity. Anyone figure these should be struck out or revised? Plynn9 06:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
