Talk:Cancún

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Contents 1 Copyvio 2 Cancun vs. Cancún 3 Funding 4 "Commercial" links 5 Crime and Corruption: Law Enforcement in Mexico 6 Since when is Cancun and island? 7 Recent edits 8 govt

[edit] Copyvio

I reverted the addition of a block of copyrighted text; see User talk:201.128.20.105. -- Infrogmation 00:52, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cancun vs. Cancún

As it is the currently agreed-upon Wiki name of this page, I have changed all name references in the article from Cancun to Cancún (except those that specifically talk about the name ambiguity). Unless somebody feels strongly otherwise, future edits to this page should use Cancún as well. The Tuvix 04:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Cancun is a gorgous country, my family and I went there on a cruise, very worth going on a cruise to.

Jules Siegel replies: You changed the references in my discussion of the ambiguity, too. I also believe that decision to rename the page Cancún is an error. It's typical of the cultural imperialism that characterizes international attitudes toward Cancun. You can come here and look at all the signs in English and you will see that overwhelming majority spell it Cancun. The name of the oldest and most populat tourism directory is Cancun Tips. I've lived here since 1984, but I guess the opinion of people who may have visited occasionally (or never) has greater weight than ours. Jules Siegel 17:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

the official name of the city is cancún,

the official name of the city is the Municipio de Benito Juárez and Cancún (note the capital "C") is one of its districts.

this os how the mexican government and local municipality spell it, what some gift shop or hotel does is irrelevant,

Cancun Tips is a publication with a circulation in the millions annually.

cancún is in spanish and in spanish it is spelled canún not cancun friend.

You keep repeating "in Spanish." That's my point. In Cancun itself, Cancun is spelled with an accent when used in Spanish and usually spelled without the accent when used in English.

lack of the accent is due to lazyness, ignorance, lack of know how of how to inter the "´" on a computer, careless foreign enterprises, mispellings, mexicans romanticising accentless english much in the same way we add accents on everything from café and powerâde to mötley crüe, and lastly it is commonly taught accross latin america that its fine to omit accents when writing in all caps.

All of the above is true to some degree but irrelevant. I am talking about usage in Cancun. Using accents in foreign words in English is a style issue and does not follow any general rules. For a long time, many foreign words, such as cafe, were not accented. In recent years, it has been much more common to use the accents, but it depends on the style guide you follow.

your opinion based on your place of residence for the last 23 years is original research and is inadmissable as far as WP goes.

Not true. Original research is acceptable if it is factual and can be verified. See my talk page for an editor's opinion on that.

even Alaska Airlines adds in the states spell it that way. and the most important fact of all it mostly matters how the government spells the name of the city,

In Spanish. You'll note that if you visit the Cancun government page, the URL is spelled without the accent, because that is the correct Internet usage in order to avoid browser problems. Wikipedia, of course, uses the accent in the URL.

much in the same way it matters if mario lopez writes his name without an accent on the o and juan ramón jiménez does write accents on the o and e in his names.^{T ALK}•^QR_C2006•¢ʘñ†®¡ß§ 05:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

You are basing your opinions on Spanish publication style, with which you have some familiarity. I'm basing mine on local English style, with which I have great familiarity, and English style in general, an area in which I am a professional with more than forty years experience in major publications. But thanks for offering your advice. You are trying to be helpful. The issue is moot because the Wikipedia style is to use the accent in Cancun. I don't agree with it, but I don't agree with a lot of the decisions around here, many of which are the consensus of the ignorant who overrule the experts.Jules Siegel

[edit] Funding

Article refers to a "USD $27 million loan from the International Development Bank." If we don't know which bank it was (World Bank, IADB, etc), then that should be reworded. –Hajor 14:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It was the Inter-American Development Bank --Jules Siegel 04:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Commercial" links

Someone has been removing external links to websites that are devoted to information about Cancun but are supported by advertising. This is very unfair. I'd say that 99% of Cancun web pages are unashamedly commercial and promote travel agencies, hotels, airline reservations and a wealth of other services. The very few that are linked here are not in the same category.

All About Cancun is a user-driven discussion board filled with information about Cancun from people who visit here regularly or live here. Some of them do have businesses in Cancun, but the discussions are almost entirely non-commercial, including very objective and often critical reviews.

CafeCancun.com has a wealth of independent reviews, recommendations and news about Cancun. The only commercial aspect consists of book ads. The income from the ads is mostly symbolic -- not even covering the costs of maintaining the site, and a total loss if my time were charged. "Cancun User's Guide" is not a travel guide. It contains historic and cultural information about Cancun available from few other sources. It does contain some travel tips (after all resort is about travel, right?), but the overwhelming emphasis is informational. It is the only book other than Fernando Marti's "Cancun, Fantasy of Bankers," that tells Cancun's history, going all the way back to pre-Hispanic times. I would suggest that you look at Cancun Bashing Is in Style to see an example of how rich some of this material is.

I understand the desire to keep Wikipedia from becoming an advertising conduit, but there is often an element of self-righteousness in the editing that people do. Please be more sensitive to what a site is really all about before killing an external link. --Jules Siegel 04:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Mr. Siegel. Even the 2, yes 2, Convention and Visitors Bureau Websites Go Cancun and Cancun.info are very much commercial in nature. All About Cancun has had 100's of volunters help 1,000's of vacationers with their questions about Cancun since 1997. To quote Wikipedia: "There is nothing wrong with adding a list of content-relevant links to an article". I would add, that "Cancun User's Guide" is a Good read. --Cbeach1 17:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

So edit something in addition to Cancun to show your non-commercial intent. Jok2000 21:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Please read what I quoted from Wikipedia. Looking at the History for this page, I see 0 contributions from you. __Cbeach1 22:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

You should look at the history more closely. Simply click on the "Ruins in Cancun" photo and you will see that it is mine and has been here for a long time. Jok2000 17:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Would Cancun 101 be appropriate for the external links?

Apparently Anonymous User IP 70.28.152.36 has taken a dislike to me. While others have confirmed my edits, he/she has now deleted a Link to the Cancun Airport Cancun AirportI recently added. If this is not content related, I don't know what is. Cbeach1 17:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crime and Corruption: Law Enforcement in Mexico

Mexico's corrupt law enforcment is used to suppress information about crime to avoid affecting tourism rather than find perpetrators. See the Toronto Star coverage on the Ianiero murders for example. These chronic problems should be referenced here if balanced information is intended. kgw

The Toronto Star's coverage was wildly sensationalistic. There was no merit at all to the charges that the government suppressed any information in order to avoid affecting tourism. I've lived here since 1983. The official policy on violent crime against tourists is track down the criminals and punish them, no matter how long it takes. This doesn't always happen right away, but they almost always get them. At the time that the Star published its stories, the case was less than two weeks old. It is still under very active investigation and there are rumors that arrests will be forthcoming soon. Be that as it may, how many unsolved murders are on the books in Canada today?

Jules Siegel 23:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Since when is Cancun and island?

Since when is Cancun an island? Sure the tourist zone or "hotel zone" was built on what used to be an island, but the town of Cancun has been around for quite some time and has an approximate population of over 500,000 people in 2006.

[edit] Recent edits

I see at the top of this page a request for pictures of Cancun. My wife, Anita Brown, and I have hundreds of professional-quality photographs. Maybe someone can explain why we would want to contribute some of them to illustrate this article when misguided people continue to remove links from us and others like us.

I originally supplied much of the cultural information on Cancun in this article that was until today marked for verification. Unfortunately, some overzealous person removed my attribution. I restored it and made a few other minor edits. This article has been subjected to various very crude and ignorant edits over the past few years, including the removal of links to my book and website, Cancun User's Guide, which are among the very few Cancun resources that are mainly devoted to historical, social and cultural information and analysis.

In a previous discussion of similar edits, it was argued that tourism information should be confined to the Wiki travel site. The tourism information has now been partially -- and rather inadequately restored, but the links to sites such as mine and others that provide independent information about Cancun have been removed, presumably because we somehow to stand to gain something from them. I do sell a book about Cancun. I'm not offering a link to it in the article at this time because I want to avoid the accusation of conflict of interest. I will say that the truly bizarre editing of this page -- apparently by complete outsiders who know very little about Cancun -- is an atrocious abuse of the Wikipedia system.

I'm not sure about how to enter a complaint about this, but I do intend to look into it. Meanwhile, I think that people who don't know much more about Cancun than can be found in the standard guides should refrain from removing information provided by people who actually live here or are otherwise deeply involved in Cancun life and business. It has certainly discouraged me from contributing anything further from my vast store of information about Cancun gathered in what are now nearly 24 years of living and working here. I should perhaps state that although I came here to work for Fonatur, the government agency that conceived, financed and built Cancun, and I later did graphic design for various local clients, I have absolutely no association of any kind with the Cancun tourism industry. --Jules Siegel 01:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] govt

who's the mayor? is there a municipal council? what party? is there a city hall? hall of justice? hospitals? cathedral? church? mosque? schools? university? the article is very touri-centric.71.142.69.128 04:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Since people who actually live here are routinely punished by having their external links removed, why should any of us do anything to fill out the article? What you see is mainly written by outsiders, who are usually tourists, so that's what you get. Also, since the main business of Cancun is tourism it is understandable that this would be the main content of the article.

There's plenty of information on the web in Spanish (and to some extent in English) about the topics that you raise. If you're so concerned about it, how about doing the research and filling in the parts that you feel are inadequate? Jules Siegel 13:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)