Talk:Camera obscura
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[edit] The invention/creation of the Camera Oscura
- Having gone over some books and sources over the Internet, it is important we mention Mo-Ti's and Aristotle's discovery of the camera oscura principle first, which dates prior to Al-Hasan's assembly of the princicples. This will help this article become more factual, detailed and useful to Wikipedia users. I will soon provide some links and ISBNs for sources we could use to accurately describe the discovery and creation with fair credits to the concerned people. Here is an extract:
- "The earliest mention of this type of device was by the Chinese philosopher Mo-Ti (5th century BC). He formally recorded the creation of an inverted image formed by light rays passing through a pinhole into a darkened room. He called this darkened room a "collecting place" or the "locked treasure room."
- Aristotle (384-322 BC) understood the optical principle of the camera obscura. He viewed the crescent shape of a partially eclipsed sun projected on the ground through the holes in a sieve, and the gaps between leaves of a plane tree.
- The Islamic scholar and scientist Alhazen (Abu Ali al-Hasan Ibn al-Haitham) (c.965 - 1039) gave a full account of the principle including experiments with five lanterns outside a room with a small hole. "
- If I don't hear from anyone who is willing to collaborate, I will run through with you guys the proposed addition and then proceed to add the amendments myself.
[edit] Latin word
Since the correct italian spelling is Camera oscura (without b), I'd redirect it to the correct spelling, unless in english it is used instead with the current spelling. In this case I'd add a redirect from Camera oscura. --Gianfranco
"Camera obscura" is correct in English. It's Latin, not Italian. --Zundark, Tuesday, April 9, 2002
- Just a note: English is Germanic. Italian, is, a Latin language. --Downtownee 10:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More Camera Obscura
There are two other famous Camera obscuras - one in Wales and one in Santa Monica, California. And in the movie - A Matter of Life and Death Middle Street, Shere, Surrey, England, UK is the village seen through camera obscura.
[edit] Old painting masters
Wasn't there some consperacy theory that the old masters used these to make their paintings?
- Yes, see David Hockney. It needs adding to this article. Justinc 22:28, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Yes there were. It is not considered a conspiracy though. One of the first uses of the new invention, photgraphy, esp. during 1850s, was its assistance to painters. There were a debate on if photography is indeed a distict form of art, and many of the first photogrpahers were either painters themselves or were commissioned to make up very complicated images used by painting masters as "sketches". One of these photographers was O. G. Rejlander. Also have a look at Henry P. Robinson, who held a view of the photography must follow aesthetic and scenery rules of the contemporary painting. Plus Hockney is not an "old" master! --Downtownee 10:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Correct the misspelling
Strange, the main page has the incorrect spelling "Camera Onscura" but when I go to the edit section the correct "Camera obscura" is listed...oh well. I guess I can't change it. - John
(Apparenly someone was editing at that exact moment, the 1st in some time. What a coincidence)
[edit] Plural form
'Cameras obscura' is the proper plural form, not 'camera obscuras'. I've corrected the article. Future editors should keep this in mind. Kent Wang 18:30, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
This is not even correctly pedantic. Common usage has the plural 'camera obscuras', which is easily good enough. The correct plural form, never used by anyone at all, is 'cameras obscurae'.
- Try camerae obscurae for the actual latin plural. "Cameras obscura" and "Camera obscuras" kind of make sense as an english plural, but mixing english and latin plural forms in "cameras obscurae" is just strange. FiggyBee 09:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- The only plural form that appears in the OED is "camera obscuras", from Charles Hutton's Mathematical and Philosophical Dictionary of 1796. -- Dominus 15:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Google book search finds 26 citations for "cameras obscura" and 262 for "camera obscuras". -- Dominus 15:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Vermeer
The article says there is considerable controversy over whether Vermeer and others used the camera obscura. But last night I saw a documentary on the BBC (Light Fantastic) where it was said that a precise date can be given when Vermeer switched fully to the camera obscura. Now there were some inaccuracies in the documentary but those were simplifications for 'the less educated viewer', so to say. But saying one can pinpoint a date is something different. Anyone know more? DirkvdM 06:28, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Resolution
The article said that a pinhole gives low resolution, which can be solved by using a lens. I don't see how this influences resolution (it does influence light-sensitivity, though), so I removed that. Resolution is a matter of how fine the grain is in a photocamera. The equivalent in the camera obscura would be how accurate the artist is, I suppose. DirkvdM 06:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
- A formula can be found at pinhole camera#Selection of pinhole size. Anyway, a pinhole for this use gives neither brightness nor resolution. Meggar 03:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
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- resolution is not just a term relevant to film grain. it refers to how well an image resolves at the VP. If you've ever tried making a pinhole camera, and have used a huge hole, you will know that the circle of confusion becomes so great that the image is comprised of large circles, it is then said to have poor resolution. DavidP
[edit] Al-hazem
Could we suggest [it is indeed established] that creation of the camera obscura was accidental? I've seen descriptions concluding, from Al-Hazem's text, the dark room was known to him before he used it for the experiments on eclipse.
And as for the theory, the observation of the inverted image, there are also an account about a chinese called Mo Ti and his observation of inverted image, a century before similar observations from Aristotle. (I donno a reference for this accounts yet)
It seems less of a [accidental] discovery, and more of a creativity.
Downtownee 10:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] removed this etymology
also known in Arabic as “qamara”, hence Latin camera
Since it isn't - "camera" is Latin for "chamber", and was long before the invention of the camera obscura. (See [1] for example) FiggyBee 09:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
