Talk:Cambridge University Conservative Association

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An anonymous (presumably CUCA-sympathetic) user keeps deleting the entire 'CUCA controversies' section. As the section is carefully referenced using articles in both local and national newspapers, there appears to be no reason for this other than censorship.

I would also appreciate it if the person in question would not describe the paragraph as 'libellous'. Not only is it patently not libellous to repeat accepted stories already in print, but see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_legal_threats for what Wikipedia's has to say about threats of legal action - I would politely ask you not to bandy about such terms so lightly.

I have also added a table of CUCA Chairmen since 1950 as a separate article, since if it were added here it would more than double the size of the article. Neocon12 20:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, as I've added the Former chairmen of Cambridge University Conservative Association article, perhaps we should delete the 'recent CUCA Chairmen' section here? Former CUCA chairmen of the last 50 years are of interest, as they include MPs, cabinet ministers and QCs. None of the recent Chairmen have (yet) done anything particularly noteworthy, so perhaps we should delete this section, and just leave them mentioned in the former CUCA chairmen article? Neocon12 20:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree - the previous 12 Chairmen aren't exactly "recent" anyway. Perhaps just keep the last 3 or 4, and a link to the full list? JT, CUCA

I too am getting annoyed about edits to recent Chairmen and former Chairmen. It is not acceptable to use the list of former Chairman as a campaign platform in an upcoming Society election as has been done. And it certainly is not the place to boost one's ego. Therefore, I think that there should be some standard for both. Perhaps membership of both lists should entail having actually succesfully completed a term in office and, whilst former chairmen should be as complete as possible, perhaps recent chairmen should have a time restriction. How about last five chairmen? That would make the office holders personally memorable to about half the resident membership. Rols foxy 10:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Laws of Libel

I would respectfully suggest that if you actually read the articles you are referring to THOROUGHLY rather than skimming them as you have done, you will find that the interpretation you have given is libellous and has defamed the characters of several individuals. The sources you have listed in this paragraph do not substantiate the claims you make. You should also be aware that repetition of a libel is in itself a libel (regardless of whether that was raised at the time because the data storage capacity of the internet allows for repeated libel through the years and is therefore open to challenge at any point that the information is in the public domain).

We do not wish to take further action over this but will have no option to do so if you persist with your editing of a topic of which you personally have no knowledge of and are merely basing on what is apparently in the public domain. Again, be careful with your assumption that if it is in the public domain, it is automatically 100% quotable and true, let alone whether you have drawn the correct inference from it.

However, if you do wish to revert the article once more to its previous state, I would respectfully request that you also reveal your identity so that the appropriate measures can be taken in response. After all, if you are so certain that the 'sources' validate your defamatory claims, you should have no problem allowing this to happen as presumably you will be quite happy to stand by your interpretation in a court of law.

[edit] Sort this out

This whole thing has got silly, the committee of CUCA does not know who is involved but is not happy with a wiki war occurring over its history. We would be grateful if people would reveal who they are instead of hiding behind the anonymity of wiki. Could all parties please email me on vc@cuca.org.uk so we can settle this off line amicably. Thanks VC, CUCA

In response I have quoted the relevant sections of the articles in full, so as to avoid the possibility of quoting out of context or misunderstanding, and making it clearer that the events are alleged by Varsity. Regardless of whether or not the report is as you say untrue, reporting that a Varsity report on the subject appeared is not a libel, neither is describing the nature of that report, especially if it is made clear that it resulted in compliants.

Having said that, as the names of the people involved are not notable for anything else, I have agreed to remove these from the quotations, - the article is noteworthy because it involves the running of CUCA, not because anyone famous was involved. Certainly the names do not add anything to the article.

It is very difficult to see what is libellous - the story amounts to 'a motion of no confidence was raised, and was defeated on a technical point.' Such occurences are scarcely unusual among student political societies - just take a look at the OUCA page for comparison.

It is also ironic that the people demanding my identity so as to threaten me with legal action have not seen fit to sign in a single time. Wikipedia deals with thousands of contested facts every day without resorting to threats of legal action.

Nor do I intend to run first drafts by CUCA for approval, VC. Much as I can understand CUCA's desire to turn their encyclopaedia entry into a recuitment piece, Wikipedia is not the propaganda arm of CUCA. If there are disputes about the accuracy or neutrality of the piece, please amend them in the usual way, with a full explanation, or go through the established Wikipedia procedure for mediation.

As I do not know whether any of the other contributers were themselves involved in this, I have refrained from adding a line or two heavily refuting that these events ever happened, but if you have any such personal knowledge, feel free to add such a disclaimer, complete with ^{[citation needed]} tag (unless, of course, you also have a source for this). However, I'd have thought that repeating the report that CUCA complained to the Press Complaints Commission makes that fairly clear in the first place. Neocon12 17:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

CUCA has no problem with what you have written now, we mearly thought that as people were not signing, and perhaps don't have accounts, then it would be easier to settle offline without this constant changing and changing back of the article. VC

Glad to hear it - though as you say, there's a problem on both sides with people anonymously editing the article. Neocon12 22:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy Section

Given the debate over the 'CUCA controversies' section, I thought it worth saying that I have deleted the section on CUCA going to the PPC. As the Article in Varsity 523 points out, "neither CUCA as a corporate entity, not any of the individuals mentioned in the paragraph complained to the PPC... Andrew Hammond did compalin to the PPC in a personal capacity. The complaint was not adjudicated upon by the PPC."

Selwyn Lloyd was a Liberal at Cambridge, and indeed a Liberal candidate at the 1929 election. Can he really have been a CUCA alumnus as listed here?