Talk:California Proposition 22 (2000)

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[edit] city lawsuit

Has the city's lawsuit been resolved? If so, in what way? I think that's something to include, and the linked-to article only seems to talk about the resolution of the lawsuit against the city, not the one initiated by the city. The Literate Engineer 17:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy of marriage licensing within California

I rewrote a passage of this section, which effectively reverted an edit made on 07-Jan-2007 (diff; see second paragraph at line 31). The edit to which I object asserts that no controvery exists as to Prop 22's reach within the marriage statutes.

The controversy I originally referenced centers on whether or not Prop 22 governs marriage licenses within the state; there is no disagreement as to its effect on marriage contracted outside of California.

Rather than merely reverting the edit, I expanded with quotations (referenced to the precise page within the California Official Reports). The references that were already at the end of this paragraph (and which remain) provide three independent perspectives (legislative analyst for the California Assembly Judiciary Committee, Los Angeles Times article, and an article from the Ventura County Bar Association [see referenced PDF at p. 9, "2005: Yo-Yo Down, Yo-Yo Up"]).

Given the present references, it seems clear that a controversy exists. If for any reason further citation is required to establish that the nature of the controversy, I can clog up the article with many more paragraphs and verifiable authorities.

I believe that neutrality requires noting the presence of this controversy. The article is weaker (and strays into POV) without pointing out the debate. Absent some objection, I believe the present citations are more than adequate to establish that there is a dispute on this topic. If there's a serious concern about noting this controversy, please chime in here. I'm happy to respond.

Wonderbreadsf 02:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Acknowledging the existence of a controversy is fine, though it bears noting that the pre-Jan.7 version did not do that, instead stating unequivocally that Prop 22 applies to out of state marriages only. The January 18 edits go too far in the opposite direction, implying that the controversy exists not only among the population at large but also among California courts, which is not true. Far from ruling that Prop 22 applies only to out of state marriages, the Armijo court carefully weighed the narrow issue of whether a California statute extending wrongful death benefits to California domestic partners did or did not run afoul of Prop 22. That entire question would have been moot if the Armijo court did not believe Prop 22 applied to in-state arrangements at all. It makes no sense to rule first on what a statute WOULD mean if it DID apply, and then argue that it doesn't apply after all. And if that is what the court thinks, the entire ruling should be vacated.

Thus, we do have a controversy, and it's fine to mention that, but if we do, the least we can do is also mention that 2 out of 2 appellate courts both say Prop 22 means what it says, not what its opponents apparently wish it said. It's probably worth noting that not even its opponents appeared to believe Prop 22 was limited to out of state marriages at the time it was on the ballot, if the argument against Prop 22 and the rebuttal to the argument for it are any indication.

I also cleaned up the language about dicta. Dicta concerns whether the portion of the opinion in question is necessary to its holding, not whether the statute itself is or is not being challenged. I understand the dicta argument to be, in essence, that while a ruling either case that X did violate Prop 22 would have required both a holding that Prop 22 applied to the situation and a separate finding that X violated it, rulings that X does not violate Prop 22 only require a holding that either the law does not apply or the challenged act does not violate it. These leaves some weasel room over the question of which prong is The Essential Holding and which prong can be dismissed as dicta. I think a much stronger case can be made that a determination that Prop 22 does apply to in-state marriage is essential to any holding that any particular in-state arrangement does or does not run afoul of it. However, that is my POV, not a hard and fast rule, so rather than remove the dicta argument I simply threw out the counterargument as an alternative.

Xrlq 20:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Significant expansion

As is obvious from the history, I've replaced most of the prior text. I did not preserve a couple of passages discussed here:

On February 19, 2004, the city and county of San Francisco filed a lawsuit against the state challenging the law. This lawsuit came out at the same time that San Francisco city officials attempted to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

The case filed by the S.F. against the state was actually filed in March. More importantly, as initially filed, S.F. tried to treat Prop 22 as an ancillary issue. Ultimately, the consolidated and coordinated cases (six in total, although only one is mentioned here) did squarely address Prop 22. As a matter of emphasis, however, if we're going to point to only one case I would suggest that the Proposition 22 Legal Defense Fund case would be a more appropriate choice.

In March, Judge Richard Kramer overturned Proposition 22. "There appears to be no rational reason for limiting marriage to opposite sexes," Kramer wrote. Continued Kramer, "California cannot prohibit same-sex marriage, solely because California has done so before." The State appealed the decision, and on July 10th, oral arguments were heard before the California Court of Appeal for the 1st District. A ruling must be issued by the Court before or on October 10th, 2006. The ruling may ultimately be appealed to the Supreme Court for the State of California.

This information is dated and other wiki pages give it a much more thorough treatment. I made a cursory summation of the status to date and just linked to Same-sex marriage in California where the broader issues are probably better addressed.

For that matter, the convoluted history of domestic-partnerships, same-sex marriage and related issues in California could use an overhaul. I wonder if an entry on this single facet of the debate merits such a broad ranging discussion. I'll save the rest of the commentary for the California project discussion.

Also, I removed the legislative sub template. Feel free to restore if the present material is still too stubby Wonderbreadsf 01:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)