User talk:Caius2ga

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Witaj,
ciesze sie, ze widze cie w Wikipedii. Pewnie wiesz, ze istnieje takze polska Wikipedia. Jesli przynosi ci satysfakcje tworzenie takze w jezyku polskim zapraszamy.
--Kpjas 17:21, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Backup copy of the Silesian article (version 3)

The Silesian language or Silesian ethnolect belongs to the West Slavic branch of Slavic languages, together with Polish, Upper and Lower Sorbian, and other Lekhitic languages) as well as Czech and Slovak.

It is spoken in the region of Silesia in south-western Poland and north-eastern Czech Republic and in a coupe of place all around the world.

Sometimes it is considered not be be a separate language, but just a regional dialect of Polish.

See also:


Lower Silesian language
Slavic peoples
Poland
Common phrases in different languages

[edit] External links:

Note:

There are two concept about Silesian ethnolect: (1) separate Western Slavonic language (similar to Polish and Czech with some German influences) or just (2) a regional dialect of Polish. As the linguists say there ae no strict definiton of what is a language, what is a dialect (both are called ethnolects).

Native Polish speakers I don't understand anything except a few words, that are sililar to Polish. The same applies to Czech, Slovak, Russian, Ukrainian and Kashubian. Kashubian and Silesian are sometimes clasified as dialects of Polish.

The Silesian people consired themselves to be a separate nation and their speak to be a separate language. And the Polish nationalists deny them this status. This is a political not lingusitic(scientific) debate.

[edit] Silesian language debate

Please stop creating new pages and start discussing on Talk:Silesian language. I'd also appreciate it if you calmed down and stopped accusing people who are trying to help of vandalism. Daniel Quinlan 01:18, Nov 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Caius, I noticed you said on Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress you are having some problems. Do you need help finding your old pages? Don't worry, nothing has been deleted.

You can look at all the old versions of Silesian language and then click the one you want to read. I think this one is your most recent. Is that what you were looking for?

Here is your Silesian ethnolect page.

No-one is trying to delete anything. I think you have misunderstood. Please look at Silesian where Daniel has edited your article to make it more neutral. If you want to discuss it, you can do so on the talk page, but please don't accuse people of vandalising. No-one is intentionally doing that.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. For example, you could have your version of the pages in your user space so that no-one else would edit them if this would be useful to you. Let me know if that's what you want and I can help you do that.

Angela

I went ahead and created a copy of your last version of Silesian ethnolect is located at User:Caius2ga/Silesian. If you want to delete it, go to WP:PSPTBD. Daniel Quinlan 00:46, Nov 5, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Silesian language manipulation

My intention was to write and article (from neutral point of view, mentioning various facts and theories) about the Silesian language spoken by the Silesian people living in the region of Silesia. A couple of editors who didn't like the content first tried to delete the page, and when this attempt failed, they have erased the content and replaced it with a stub about the Lower Silesian dialect of German. Next the page the page was moved to another location: Lower Silesian. All other Silesian pages and their Talk pages have been redirected to this new Lower Silesian page. Despite my desparate attempts to restore the original content under (Silesian language or Silesian ethnolect) all these pages were erased without any discussion redirected to this new German dialect page (and this happened several times).

After this manipulation was done it may look like that it was me who makes most of trouble. If you look at the history of the Lower Silesian the first impression is that a Polish nationalist is erasing imformation about a Germanic dialect, and there's no information that the first 3 edits were made in a very different page under another name (Silesian language).

As it seems to me that the Silesian language page and its history was stolen by the LowerSilesianGermans and the history of my edits have been viciously manipulated, I demand that:

  • the history of my edits of the Silesian language return to the right place
  • my name is not listed on the Lower Silesian edit history

The only way to to this is:

  • Lower Silesian page contents should be stored in a safe place
  • Silesian language page (redirect now) should be deleted temporarily
  • Lower Silesian page should be moved to its original location: Silesian langauge
  • new Silesian language page should be constructed by compiling the previous submissions from a couple of editors
  • new Lower Silesian page should be constructed from scratch using the saved content

Grzes of Poznan 23:25, Nov 6, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Three Silesian languages/dialects

pl:Język śląski

Silesian language can refer to the Upper Silesian (a dialect of Polish), Silesian (a separate Slavonic language), or the Lower Silesian (a dialect of German). All three all spoken in the region of Silesia. Silesian can also mean from or related to Silesia, Lower Silesia or Upper Silesia.

[edit] Upper Silesian

It is spoken by the Poles living in the region of Upper Silesia. It must not be confused with the Silesian language spoken by the Silesian people in the same region. Cataloged as Upper Silesian in Ethnologue


[edit] External link

Ethnologue - Upper Silesian

[edit] Silesian language

It belongs to the West Slavic branch of Slavic languages, together with Polish, Upper and Lower Sorbian, and other Lekhitic languages) as well as Czech and Slovak. It is spoken in the region of Silesia in south-western Poland and north-eastern Czech Republic and in a coupe of place all around the world. It must not be confused with the Upper Silesian dialects of the Polish language spoken by the Polish people in the same region.

According to the last census in Poland (2002) some 70,000 people declared Silesian as their first language, and some 170,000 people declared Silesian nationality. Silesian langyage must not be confused with the Upper Silesian dialects of the Polish language spoken by the Polish people in the same region.

[edit] External links

[edit] Silesian dialect vs. Silesian language

Opinions are divided between speakers and linguists as to whether Silesian is a distinct language or another dialect of Polish.

While mutual intelligibility is not the sole determinant of when a spoken dialect becomes a separate language, Silesian is not mutually intelligible with Polish. Polish speakers can understand some words, though. The issue of whether Silesian is a dialect or a language can be contentious since some Silesians consider themselves to be a distinct ethnic minority or nationality within Poland and some people disagree with this.

When classified as a dialect, it is the most prominent regional dialect of the Polish language which is classified in the West Slavic branch of Slavic languages.

When classified as a language, it is considered closely related to Polish and then Czech with some influence from German. It still is placed in the West Slavic branch of Slavic languages, together with Polish (and other Lekhitic languages), Upper and Lower Sorbian, as well as Czech and Slovak.

[edit] Lower Silesian (of German)

Lower Silesian - a dialect of the German language. Historically spoken mainly in Lower Silesia. Cataloged as Lower Silesian in Ethnologue.

[edit] External link

Ethnologue - Lower Silesian

[edit] Polish names of Polish cities debate

[edit] Names of cities

Please stop renaming cities to Polish names. The names in use are those known to English speakers. This has been discussed ad nauseum, and needs not be done again. I'll revert all of your changes. RickK 05:34, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

What do you want Rick?????????????????????????

Except just a few of Polish cities that have a commonly accepted English name like Warsaw, Cracow/Krakow and Poznan) all other cities should be named after their native or official Polish name. Usage of German names of Polish cities in English vikipedia is unaaceptable. Caius2ga 21:07, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia naming conventions

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Use_English_words Use English words Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form. Rationale and specifics: See: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)

[edit] History of Silesia debate

[edit] New intro/definition of Silesia (proposal)

My suggestion is the initial paragraphs about the modern Silesia, next paragraphs about historical Silesia.

Silesia (Silesian: Ślonsk, Ślunsk, Polish: Śląsk, German: Schlesien, Czech: Slezsko) is a historical and geographical region with over 10 million population in south-western Poland and the north-eastern Czech Republic, located along the upper and middle Oder/Odra river and along the Sudetes mountains.

Upper Silesia is divided into 2 Polish provinces: Silesian Voivodship (capital Katowice) and Opole Voivodship (capital: Opole) and the Czech province of Silesian-Moravian Region (capital Ostrava). And the Lower Silesia is divided into 2 Polish voivodships Lower Silesian Voivodship (capital Wroclaw) and partly Lubusz Voivodship (capital Zielona Gora.

Because of its rich history the region has produced a unique cultural mix based on the local Silesian elements with strong Polish, Czech and German influences. Today the region is inhabited by : the Poles, Silesians, Germans, Czechs and Moravians. History of Silesia is connected with history of the three nations and countries: Poland, Bohemia and Germany.

In the middle ages Silesia was an object of Polish-Czech rivarly but also with many ethnic Germans settling here. It was a province of the Bohemian Kingdom since 1348 till 1742, however small portion became Polish since 1443. In 1742-1763 most of Silesia was seized by Prussia in the Silesian Wars. and organized into the Prussian provinces Upper- and Lower Silesia until WWI and WWII. After World War I half of Upper Silesia, and after WWII most of Silesia was ceded to Poland. During WWII all of Silesia was part the Nazi Germany and the Germans had murdered or expelled most of Poles and Jews (see: concentration camps, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Gross-Rossen), and after WWII most of the Germans were expelled from Poland and Czechoslovakia (Expulsion of the Germans). Caius2ga 20:35, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Silesia

According to Thietmar the name of Silesia region comes from the Mount Slez (Polish: Ślęża, Sobótka, German: Silling, Sobbten).

[edit] State of Samo

In ca. 620 Silesia probably belonged to the State of Samo, the first Western Slavonic state, which was a federation of various Slavonic tribes in Bohemia, Moravia, Slovakia, Pannonia, Lusatia and Silesia.

[edit] Bishopric of Wroclaw 1000

In 990 Silesia was incorporated into Poland by Mieszko I (although some historians are moving the date to 999 and rule of king Boleslaus I. This boundaries of Poland were accepted by the Pope and Roman Enperor Otto III, by establishing the Silesian bishopric in Wroclaw (1000).

[edit] Mass massacres of Poles and Jews

During World War II the Nazi Germany has annexed the Czech Silesia in 1938 (part of the so called Sudetenland) and Polish part of Upper Silesia in 1939. Mass massacres, expulsions and murders of the Poles and Jews followed.

[edit] Referring to other users

[edit] User:Nico glorifies the German people (outside Germany)

User:Nico main activity is pushing everywhere German names of Polish/Czech cities, rivers, provinces; statistics about German population outside Germany, statements about German possesion of various territories outside Germany,

At the same time he denies existence of various non-German populations for example the Silesians, Poles and Jews in Silesia, Poles and Kashubians in Gdansk. He also erases such information, about non-German population, submitted by other users.


Nico glorifies everything made by the German people, fully informs about bad things made to the German people in the past, mainly in the territories that not belong to Germany, an he refuses every information about bad things made to other ethnic groups by the Germans. Grzes of Poznan, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

second: User Nico also introduces censorship to the Talk pages by changing other editor's submissions criticizing his point of view. Sometimes he also marks such changes as "Minor edits" Grzes of Poznan 00:50, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

third: User Nico is devoted to changing all my edits: he inserts German names everywhere, and at the same time erases important info I have added. Please HELP. I don't know what to do. Please help. Please help. Please help.Grzes of Poznan 22:52, Nov 17, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] RickK comments

Referring to other users as Nazis is unacceptable, a violation of Wikiquette, and can get you banned. RickK 05:03, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I've already brought your name to the attention of the mailing list, and we will see if others feel that your behavior justifies a ban. RickK 05:10, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Just to clarify

I never called anybody a Nazi, I was talking only about Nazi views. If you connect any such views to any editor it is your opinion, not mine. I am going to remove any such biased POV as adviced by the Wikipedia rules. Caius2ga 21:13, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Uhhuh. Then please explain this edit summary: 22:02, 17 Nov 2003 Gdansk (Restore better version - Remove Nazi bias) RickK 21:21, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I will stay away from editing Silesia for a couple of days, let the other editors have a chance to look at my edits, a have an opinion Grzes of Poznan 05:21, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Other comments

You are welcome

[edit] Silesian language

Hi, you listed Silesian language on Wikipedia:Current disputes over articles a while ago. Is this dispute still going on? It was hard to tell from the page history what the current situation is. If the problems have finished, please could you remove the listing from Wikipedia:Current disputes over articles. Thanks. Angela 08:55, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hello. Wikipedia articles typically begin with complete sentences rather than dictionary-style definitions. Where you wrote X - a town in Poland I have put X is a town in Poland in several cases. Michael Hardy 01:32, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hi, have a look at Olkusz, something went wrong with the city name. I don't know where to put those accents, can't fix it myself. -- JeLuF 06:17, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)


I'm not Germanizing anything. I don't see what's wrong, when talking about Opole as being the historical capital of Upper Silesia, with mentioning what it's name was when it was said historical capital of Upper Silesia. Would an article talking about Galicia be wrong for mentioning that it's capital was Lemberg rather than Lvov? Surely there's something to be said for using the city-names which were in use at the time. john 07:05, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Can I further note that your vandalization of Nico's user page is simply unacceptable. Whatever your opinion of him, you have no right to do that. john 07:10, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Ah, deleting stuff from here, I see. In what sense have I been proven wrong? All of the questions are on matters which are heavily in dispute. Many of them are about things I don't really have a strong opinion on. And all of them are, I think, questions of judgment rather than of certain fact. john 22:16, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Caius2ga, if you have any comments about my protecting the Lower Silesia, please put it on the Talk page. Otherwise, I see that it's almost 6 am your time as I write this. Why not take a few hours off from Wikipedia -- have a good breakfast, attend your classes/go to work, talk with your friends. Enjoy this December day; one article on Wikipedia is not the world. Unless something happens to me, I'll be unprotecting this page in less than 24 hours, & perhaps you'll realize that what a river is caled in English is not that big of a thing.

However, if you can make a persuasive enough case on the Talk page, another sysop will unprotect the page & let me know that I acted unreasonably. I'm willing to take my lumps. -- llywrch 04:53, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hi Grzes, I did not follow every discussion about place names, but on the Oder River talk page you stated, that it would be a matter of courtesy to use Polish place names only. What is important here, is to write an encyclopedia, where we tell every user facts about the regions, cities, rivers etc. That means, if a hillbilly from a hamlet in Iowa comes here without having ever heard of a name conflict, he should be able to learn something about the subject. If he happens to know only "Oder River" and never heard about "Odra", he should nonetheless know, what we are talking about. On the other head, if he happens to know only "Odra River" amd never heard about "Oder", same thing. So please, we should not think about what is courteous or what is best for us editors. Instead we should think about, what is best for our readers. And it is best to state BOTH names, so everybody knows what we are talking about.
Names are abstractions that the human mind uses in order to index and store data connected to the subject. (quoting mav).
You made a lot of wonderful contributions yesterday, and I believe, that we can work together in building an encyclopedia full of informations about our countries. Let us just start with the Silesia article, and afterwards we may continue the mediation process to clarify the name question. Until then, let us just state both names wherever possible, as a matter of courtesy towards our readers. Sincerely -- Baldhur 10:01, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I didn't delete your comments, I reverted your attempt to change the header to incorrect information. RickK 04:47, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Conflicts between users

I didn't revert, I just changed the wording from "German" to English". I didn't want you to think I had changed any comments you wrote (as per your note). I think you are right that English speakers should use the Polish names, but the truth is we are slow to change. Most of us learned those place names in regards to WWII when they were refered to by the German names. I never knew Gdansk as Gdansk, only as Danzig until just recently, for example. JackLynch 05:15, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)


I see what happened. When I reverted you, it reverted all of your changes since the last time somebody else posted. That was not what I had intended to do, it was only to change your change to the header. I apologize. RickK 16:16, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Changing username - may help Secretlondon 22:34, Dec 16, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] "Legal notice: I am removing my name from this project; note to webmasters: make sure my name is not used here or we will make your servers down"

It may not be wise to use threats. They do not help you to get your point across better, and they do not help you on the technical matter. But maybe Wikipedia:Changing username and/or posting your userpage at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion can accomplish what you seek. Cheers  — Sverdrup (talk) 22:40, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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What I can do is I can run the so-called "Eslios script". This will attribute all your edits to "(Former user)" -- a name you will share with one other user who will remain nameless. If you want any personal pages deleted, I suggest you list them on Votes for Deletion. Also, you may want to search for your name and replace it with some alternate pseudonym -- this operation can currently only be done manually. How does that sound? -- Tim Starling 23:42, Dec 16, 2003 (UTC)

You can just see the judge buckling in laughter at the claim that an unknown subscriber using a false name, who contributed freely and without duress, that he can somehow be defamed by having references to his edits listed under his false name! A lawyer would throw it out in 30 seconds with "don't be so ridiculous!" FearÉIREANN 23:47, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:
{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

[edit] Wagrowiec & Wapno Articles

I.P. Brennus S.D. Caio Suo:

I was wondering if you could take a look at the Wapno and Wagrowiec articles I've been working on. I'm asking you because a) you are a native speaker of Polish and b) the creator of the Wagrowiec article (hope I haven't messed it up too much!)

I have two principal concerns:

  • 1)Wagrowiec is both a city, a rural commune, and a county (for which there is already an article). Should we have a separate article for the rual commune, or should I include it in the article about Wagrowiec the city? If we include Wagrowiec rural commune, should I just collapse its population figure with that of the city, and leave the "urban" figure as is? Where are we going to put the separate herb picture if we combine the urban and rural municipalities?
  • 2) Wapno. There is a Polish version Wapno (wieś) that seems to put Wapno in Kuyavia-Pomerania Voivodship; however, I ran a search in a modern Polish electronic gazetteer (http://www.pilot.pl/index.php3?Z_CITY_NAME=Wapno&form_t=1&lang=en), and no alternative Wapno seems to exist. Could the author of the Polish article have accidently put it in the wrong powiat? It looks like Wapno may have originally been in the county of Znin, which is in Kuyavia-Pomerania Voivodship. Maybe that led to some confusion? I had Halibutt look at it and his solution was to simply drop the link, but I'm thinking that the Polish article may need correction, and may need to be moved to Gmina Wapno. I have to confess that I probably started all this confusion by putting up a request for a Wapno article several months ago. I didn't know that it was an official gmina of modern Poland. All I knew was the name, and that it was "around Poznan" (some of my ancestors came to America from Wapno in the 1890's and the story of their origins has been passed down with decreasing clarity and accuracy over the generations, I'm afraid). Unfortunately, I don't know enough Polish to clean up the mess that I've created. Perhaps you could fix it, or maybe you could send a message in Polish to one of the administrators of the Polish Wikipedia for me? I don't know enough to compose one :(

I appreciate any guidance and help you can give me! --Jpbrenna 20:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging Image:PolishAdministrativeDivision1946.gif

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[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Pomerania10FieldCoats.gif

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