Talk:Burj al-Arab

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Contents 1 "disc" at top 2 Height 3 Costs 4 Guests 5 Current pic doesn't seem to give it enough credit 6 Construction cost 7 Meaning of the name 8 Colani Inspiration? 9 Nomenclature 10 Layout Fix, Please!!! 11 Location 12 Infobox image 13 Word replacement 14 Irony? 15 NPOV 16 Major restructure, 23 January 07 17 Name

[edit] "disc" at top

on one caption in this article, it says the "disc at top" is a helicopter landing pad. I don't have a "source", but a picture I saw showed it from above to be an exotic tennis court. So it being a helicopter landing spot may be inaccurate.

[edit] Height

It seems extremely doubtful this is the world's tallest hotel. -- stewacide 05:19, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

It is, according to several different sources. I didn't believe it either, at first. -- Robert

It is the Worlds tallest building used fully as a hotel. There are some taller buildings in the world which have hotels in them, but the buildings are also used for other purposes. There is a building in China or Canada which has a hotel located from some 44th floor and above, but the lower floors are not meant for Hotel purpose. Also, there is a purpose built hotel building in North Korea, which was built as the tallest hotel building in the world (taller than the Burj al Arab) but it is not operational yet, due to some political and economic reasons. Hence, it is not yet the tallest hotel in the world. For more info clik on the link below; Purpose built tallest hotel-Ryugyong Hotel (incomplete construction)

It's the tallest dedicated hotel -- there are certainly taller hotel rooms around the world, but this building is the tallest building that is just hotel, and not above several floors of office building. --Quasipalm 21:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

What about the Rose Rotana Suites? Nach0king 19:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

"connected to the mainland only by a curving path." It's not a path, it is most definitely a road. You can drive right up to the front door. .--Commking 1 Sep 2005

[edit] Costs

I really doubt this statement:

"So expensive was the hotel's design and construction that it is estimated that to reach breakeven, it must be entirely booked for 400 years."

Because at an average of $2000/night x 202 rooms x 365 days equals about $200,000,000 in revunue/year alone. Plus, what company is going to build a hotel that won't turn a profit in anyone's lifetime. That's just absurd. -- Queue 17:45, Sep 17, 2005 (UTC)

You're forgetting a few things. 1) Operating costs. You're assuming that ever dollar made by the hotel is profit. This is far from true -- it's not cheap to keep up such a large and ornate building. (remeber that one million liter fish tank?) 2) No company built the Burj al-Arab. It was built by the government to put Dubai on the map -- much like the Burj Dubai, which also will probably not be profitable. --Quasipalm 21:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

It's true about the costs, and the operating expenses. That's one of the reasons it's like an "only in Dubai" type of place. The operating costs alone don't warrant it as a profitable business. But... it brings attention to Dubai and therefore business and travel, so... I guess that's the point.

[edit] Guests

Several world-class dignitaries have stayed at the hotel, such as the Sultan and Princess of Brunei, the King of Saudi Arabia, Former US Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, Queen Rania of Jordan, Superstar Amitabh Bachchan of Bollywood, former US Vice President Al Gore, President Nelson Mandela, and tennis stars Martina Hingis, Anna Kournikova and Serena Williams.

Here it is anyway.--Jerryseinfeld 00:34, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget Michael Jackson! PoorLeno 13:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It's anything but surprising that some of the rich and famous stay in what's considered the best hotel in the world. So who'd be interested in these facts? And who should verify them? -- H005 15:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the list of celebrity guests. Other buildings around the world will have much larger lists but what's the point? -- Shameer

[edit] Current pic doesn't seem to give it enough credit

compare: http://www.hillmanwonders.com/burj_al_arab/burj_al_arab.htm#_vtop

lots of issues | leave me a message 00:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the current photo at the top is pretty dull, considering the splendor of the building, but I haven't been able to find one that Wikipedia would be allowed to use. There were some decent ones here, I think, but I'd rather have a poor photo than a somewhat better photo with a copyright pasted onto it. My reading of the license was that removing it would be a violation, even if the creator were still given credit. By the way, the lovely pool photo later in the article is almost surely a copyright violation, too. I just haven't found a good site that appears to have the original. —HorsePunchKid→龜 01:43, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

[edit] Construction cost

Someone doubled the figures of the cost of the hotel project. I am reverting the change. Until some source "confirms" the 2 billion US$ figure (other than "hear-say" from concierge or any other hotel staff), a Forbes article (see first paragraph) suggests otherwise.--Logariasmo 15:23, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of the name

Wouldn't "Arabian Tower" be more of a good English translation, rather than the literal one "Tower of the Arab"...?

It is given as "tower of the Arabs" and "the angel of Arabia" in two different places within this article. Which is it? Tronno

I tried to find something definitive when someone changed "tower" to "queen" in the intro but didn't have much luck. Certainly consensus on various other sites about the Burj al-Arab and the Burj Dubai is that "burj" means "tower". —HorsePunchKid→龜 01:54, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

The Arabic word العرب al-`Arab is actually a collective plural -- normally you have to use the adjective form `Arabi to express a singular... AnonMoos 21:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colani Inspiration?

I've seen a rough drawing of the Burj al-Arab in a book by Colani, without any comment. Surely the architecture fits the values of Colani, but I've never seen any reference to him, especially not on the internet. Can anybody shed some light how the design of the hotel emerged? Thanks :-) Peter S. 23:25, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nomenclature

I reverted the edits that changed Persian Gulf to Arabian Gulf. The former is the most common name, and is the title of the Wikipedia article about it. Arabian Gulf is not even a redirect to it, but is a disambiguation page which leads to a link to Persian Gulf. Please do not make edits to make political points. Also, there is no need to change British spelling to American or vice versa (as with fiberglass). MCB 23:10, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Layout Fix, Please!!!

Can somebody who knows how to do it please finally fix the layout? The main floating image on the top right hasn't had text flowing next to it (only below) for quite some time now. Thanks! Matthiasworldwide 03:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a layout expert, alas, but can you describe what you are seeing? The article layout, text flow, etc., look pretty normal in my browser. Thanks, --MCB 04:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I get the whitespace all down the side of the data box, it looked awful. It was easily corrected just by moving the three pics to lower down the article - Adrian Pingstone 12:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but it actually looked a little bit better in my browser before the latest change. (I am not suggesting changing it back; it's no big deal either way, really.) But I mention this because layout is often a product of which browser you use, what size browser window, and your Wikipedia skin. With Firefox 1.5.0.4 on MacOS 10.4.6 using Monobook, there is little difference between the two, but the text flowed a tiny better previously. So it might be a good idea to test a page in various browsers, windows, and skins to see how it looks. Cheers, --MCB 16:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. It looks better now (main picture on top right and text now beginning on same level to the left of it) but is still not perfect (three smaller pictures do not float below main one but slightly offset towards the center). Using IE6/WXPMCE2K5SP2 right now. Maybe it looks great on an Apple or in Firefox but most folks still use IE6 so it should look acceptable there as well, IMHO. Matthiasworldwide 02:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location

I was of the view that all of the suites faced the beach (or faced the ocean, or something), with the hotel being on an island set out from the city as it is. Is this true? Not much is said regarding the layout - isn't it part of a whole neighbourhood of man-made islands, with expensive houses to be reached by boat etc. - Matthew238 00:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox image

I reverted the unrequested/undiscussed change of the infobox image. The older image is a much better and more representative photo of the building, showing the Burj's best-known profile. The other photo also duplicated the head-on view of the building which is the first photo in the Notable Attributes section. --MCB 17:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Word replacement

I replaced the word hyperbole with exaggeration in the notable attributes section. I felt that exaggeration was a simpler word which got the job done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.111.196.110 (talk • contribs).

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. However, please don't change words that you somehow don't like or appear not to know the meaning of. Hyperbole is the precise term for what was meant, and it's wikilinked for people who would like to investigate further. And furthermore, you replaced it with a misspelling. --MCB 16:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irony?

There was a considerable controversy regarding the claim that the structure looks like a huge Christian cross when viewed by anyone sailing into city. Some locals claim that this was an intentional move on the part of the British architects. This issue is more ironic when one considers that the Tower of the Arabs is widely considered to be Dubai’s most important landmark.

I'm not sure if 'ironic' is quite the word here; there's no irony if it was intentional, and if not intentional then it's just an unfortunate blunder of some sort, if even that. In any case I fail to see the irony. Naphra 09:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

This article seems to have some major problems with NPOV. The criticism section attacks the two criticisms it lists and ultimately concludes that all of the goals of the tower have been met without citing any sources. Many parts of the article read as though they were written by the Burj al-Arab marketing staff.

I"m not sure about that, but I certainly think it could be reworded and sources added. I'll get on with the job if I get some free time...Bedesboy 10:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no explanation for the phrase "ignores it's context" i am absolutely clueless as to what that means, or how it can begin to be stated as a reference-able fact.

[edit] Major restructure, 23 January 07

This article was flagged for a clean-up, so I did.

I amalgamated similar information, created more sensible categories, removed redundant pictures and moved interesting ones. I also made a passable attempt to re-word the whole article; it read like a brochure.

More information is required in the "Criticism" section, for which the main argument seems to be, "People hate the hotel because it's so awesome."

If you feel the re-write meets the obligations for a clean-up, please remove the flag. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 11:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Good job, thanks for your efforts. I agree that the criticism section has much room for imporvement, so much even that I support its deletion unless somebody comes up with something more sound and with proper sources. -- H005 13:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC) I moved this section to the bottom of this page where it should be, I hope you don't mind.

Today: footnotes. I re-wrote the footnotes in accordance with Wikipedia's Manual of Style. I also checked and verified each footnote, and where they couldn't be found, removed them.

I also removed the criticism section: you're right, H005, since it contains no actual criticism, I removed it altogether.

Lastly, I edited the external links. There are a few of them, so I made some sub-categories. Everybody loves categories. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 13:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed this discussion. On reflection, you're right, the criticism is not extensive enough as it stands to merit a section. However, I think the sentence "Another critic includes the city of Dubai as well: “both the hotel and the city, after all, are monuments to the triumph of money over practicality. Both elevate style over substance.”[12]" should be incorporated into the rest of it. I'll do a draft. Sylvain1972 14:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

On second thought, I think the section should stay. The section contains legitimate criticism, not in the sense of negative appraisals but criticism in the sense of reviews by architecture critics. I've changed the heading to try to convey this. What do you think? Sylvain1972 14:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I like it: I think this is a much better idea than just deleting the section :) It makes the criticisms both valid and relevant. Thanks for making the changes. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 20:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

The article is named Burj al-Arab, however there is no hyphen on the official website; it's always spelled Burj Al Arab. Is there a specific reason for the different spelling? Otherwise I'd suggest renaming the article. -- H005 14:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

On most wikipedia articles that have the 'al' in them, which is Arabic for 'the', the general convention is to use the "X al-Y" format. However, some articles don't follow this and if enough people think its a good idea to rename this article then why not. Asabbagh 17:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Even though the hotel's site renders it differently, the vast majority of citations I see in the media are to the form "Burj al-Arab" (with lower case "al-" and hyphen). WP:TITLE says to use "what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize", and that "[n]ames of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists". In addition, all the relevant examples in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Arabic) show the standard transliteration as "X al-Y" as you mention. So I don't think the article should be renamed. Cheers, --MCB 00:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. - Anas ^Talk? 12:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)