Talk:Burford

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[edit] Pronunciation

[ˈbəːfəd] or [ˈbəɹ-]

Should that second option just be an r-coloured schwa [ə˞] or do people really say "Burrrrrrrford"? I wouldn't have thought Burford was quite south-westerly enough for such a strongly rhotic accent. I'm probably wrong, but it seems best to seek clarification so I thought I'd leave a note. — Trilobite (Talk) 11:59, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Probably the second option is just intended to reflect any rhotic pronunciation (American, Irish, Scots), using more familiar phonetic symbols than [ɚ]. I think the town itself is in a firmly nonrhotic area. --Angr 13:03, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If that's the case the second option should probably go, otherwise we'd be justified in having options for every conceivable pronunciation by a native English speaker: slightly different vowels for people from different parts of England and so on. Also, I'm not sure that the area is quite as firmly non-rhotic as you suggest. I've left a message on the talk page of the user who added the pronunciation note to see if he can shed any light. Good to see pronunciation guides on Wikipedia! — Trilobite (Talk) 06:31, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I'm the guy who added the pronunciations. Trilobite's right in that the area isn't firmly non-rhotic, although of course there are many non-rhotic speakers and the rhoticism is tending to die with succesive generations. Thinking about it I spose r-coloured schwa is probably more accurate, or maybe a syllabic [ɹ] is more it (than [əɹ]). Is there somewhere I could hear some clips of the IPA sounds so I could be more certain? Alternatively we could just give it phonemic slashes (instead of the square brackets) and leave it as it is. Thanks lots from bringing this up as it's always important to get these things as accurate as possible - it's nice to know that someone else is as concerned about such things as me! :-) —Xipirho 20:49, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't know myself whether writing r-coloured schwa means anything different from writing schwa followed by an r. I had sort of assumed one was more pronounced or noticeable than the other but sitting here trying to pronounce 'Burford' with varying degrees of rhoticity I'm wondering if it's essentially all or nothing. At least we have confirmed there are rhotic speakers in the area which clears up the confusion. As for clips of IPA sounds Wikipedia has quite a few sound samples, reached from various articles but a good starting point might be International Phonetic Alphabet for English or table of vowels perhaps or all the articles along the lines of fricative consonant for consonants. Also some of the external links on International Phonetic Alphabet lead to pronounceable charts like this one. I'm very much in favour of putting IPA pronunciations in Wikipedia, especially for place names, but I tend to chicken out of having a go at them myself because it's such a minefield trying to get it right. — Trilobite (Talk) 09:53, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Two points -

1) Why has the IPA been changed to the backwards epsilon, when hardly anyone actually says that sound (instead they say a long schwa), and the Oxford dictionary uses a long schwa, not the backwards epsilon in its IPA prono guide!?!?

2) Was "Big Ben" from THIS Burford or one in America? Could well be this one, but just checking.

Xipirho 12:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The backwards epsilon is the most usual way of representing the "NURSE vowel" of RP; Oxford uses the schwa in order to keep the number of symbols it uses to a minimum. As for "Big Ben", I know nothing about the character, but according to Burford (disambiguation) there is no Burford in America (though there is one in Canada). User:Angr 10:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)