Talk:Burakumin

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Contents

[edit] Who are they?

I read this entire article and I still don't understand who these people are. Are they ethnically different? Do burakumin families remain so throughout the generations? I don't believe that just because your great-great grandfather was an undertaker during the Tokugawa era, that you are now officially an outcast burakumin and will remain so forever. Why are they outcasts? There must be some kind of common thread between them, other than the fact that they have crappy jobs. Otherwise there probably wouldn't be "liberation" groups working to help them. It's just that this is an ambiguous article. It says that they're outcasts, gives some reasons why they're apparently disliked, and gives their history--but who are they?

[edit] Same group?

Are the burakumin the same as the hisabetsu buraku? If so, perhaps the articles should be unified. --FOo

Do the burakumin have anything at all to do with the Ainu? I was under the impression that they were completely separate groups... but this article seems to state that all Ainu are burakumin, and that all burakumin live in Hokkaido. If the Ainu aren't burakumin, the reference should probably be taken out. Sekicho 05:54, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)

I suspect it is due to poor grammar by me. I reworded the sentence so that it reads better my intention. It should be ok now. -- Taku 02:22, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

Cool. Another question:

In a court case of 1859 described by author Shimazaki Toson, a Meiji magistrate declared that "An eta is worth 1/7 of an ordinary person."

There weren't any "Meiji magistrates" in 1859, were there? Part of this sentence has to be incorrect. Sekicho 05:06, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Buraku article

Somebody has just started an article on "buraku" that seems a decent attempt but a pointless duplication of what's here. In view of that, I'm about to convert it to a redirect, but before I do so, here's its content:

Buraku is a Japanese word referring to village or hamlet. The word began to acquire a new connotation after the administration in Meiji era (1868 - 1912) started to use “Tokushu Buraku” (special hamlet) in reference to former outcaste communities. The intention was to negatively distinguish former outcaste communities from other areas.
At present the word “Buraku” is usually referred to as communities where discriminated-against Buraku people reside. On the other hand, the term “Tokushu Buraku” has been figuratively used from time to time in distinguishing a different society from a so-called ordinary society as well as in describing Buraku areas, resulting in fostering discrimination against Buraku people.

End. NB I didn't write the above (it's primarily by 207.216.60.76); I merely moved it here. -- Hoary 06:32, 2005 Jan 24 (UTC)

[edit] strange comment

"Some of the naive educators like to imagine burakumin as innocent martyrs to discriminations, but historically buraku has had something to do with yakuza, this fact is also getting Buraku problems delicate."

This isn't correct English, plus it's strangely worded; I think it's implying the burakumin are disproportionately involved with the yakuza and thus deserve no respect? Or something. I don't want to get into an ethnic/racial quibble debate...


  • I went ahead and rewrote this to be more NPOV. I'm tempted to remove it completely unless some supporting evidence is given.


I am afraid you made 2 mistakes.

1. The comment above has nothing to do with "and thus deserve no respect" or something similar. If you can read Japanese, you will find the same statistics in the homepage of a professor named KATO Hisao, Keio University; http://www.kclc.or.jp/humboldt/katoj.htm

If you cannot read Japanese, this article might help you; http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:nJz9zapwtEEJ:research.yale.edu/wwkelly/restricted/Japan_journalism/NYT_951130.htm+buraku+yakuza+&hl=ja

2. The burakumin are not an ethnic group nor a race, but a social class. Indeed KIKUCHI Sansai (1890-1966) insisted the origin of the burakumin was Nivkh, but now his theory is considered too old.

[edit] deleted comment

"In November 27th, 2001, the BLL expressed their delight at the terrorist attack against the United States on 9.11. The BLL is also known as a friend of North Korea."

This comment was deleted as "vandalism". But, if you can read Japanese, you will find it is an obvious fact that the BLL welcomed 9.11. The Kaihou Shinbun (the BLL's official newspaper) stated as the following; http://www.ngy1.1st.ne.jp/~ieg/ieg/inter/vol4-4/911j2.htm#部落解放

「世界の貧者と弱者は、世界貿易センタービル（ＷＴＣ）と、米国防省にたいする自爆テロに、喝采をあげ、歓喜した。かくいうわたしも、明け方までテレビにかじりつき歓喜をあげつづけた。ＷＴＣは、アメリカが主導し、Ｇ７が仕切るグローバリズムのメッカである。世界経済を米とＧ７が自由に動かし、貧しい国と、その民から徹底的に搾取し、収奪する市場原理主義の聖地にほかならない。だから世界の貧者は、ＷＴＣビルの崩壊に喝采をあげた。・・・」

"世界の貧者と弱者は、世界貿易センタービル（ＷＴＣ）と、米国防省にたいする自爆テロに、喝采をあげ、歓喜した" means "The poor and the weak of the world cheered for the suicide attacks to the WTC and the Pentagon." "わたしも、明け方までテレビにかじりつき歓喜をあげつづけた" means "I also shouted for joy, sticking at my television, until dawn".

It is widely known about the friendship between the BLL and North Korea; http://210.145.168.243/sinboj/sinboj2002/2/0211/82.htm#南副議長

Just glancing at the article in the link provided, it seems very questionable to claim that an organization has taken a particular stance based on one editorial (it might even be a letter to the editor, it wasn't clear whether this person named K was affiliated with the paper or not) written by one man in a newspaper written by the organization. Later in the same article that is being quoted above, the author praises the newspaper for printing various opinions on the matter. (以上の点はさておき、「解放新聞」がその主張に反する異質な個人見解を公開されたことに敬意を評します。個々人の意見表明を尊重する人権・民主主義感覚におおいに期待しております。Ｋさんとの率直な議論・有意義な論争を期待して。) I know very little about this organization or this newspaper, but this "evidence" seems pretty flimsy. Unless the BLL officially endorsed the 9-11 terrorism, or there are multiple sources that have supporting evidence, I am against this claim being restored to the article. CES 03:24, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Full text of above citation is here. And read this, writer of this column is an exterior left-wing editor, after the disputing which also the reader mixed, BLL's trust to this one was cancelled. About north Korea, they had working with zainichi Korean against discriminations in Japan. Johncapistrano 07:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hierarchical social classes

I'm a little confused by this sentence in the article: "Their presence in Japan is small, partly because Japan's society has a comparative lack of hierarchical social classes." For one thing, it's not clear what "their presence in Japan is small" means; are we just trying to say that they are few in number? Also, "a comparative lack of hierarchical social classes", compared to what? Certainly the idea of social hierarchy is hardly unknown in Japan. Is the point that this does not take the form of social classes (other than the burakumin themselves, not to mention Koreans and other ethnic minorities)? Also, the connection between the two clauses of this sentence are not entirely clear. It also seems misleading to mention a current lack of social classes in Japan if it is in fact the case that, during the Tokugawa era, Japan had a rigid hierarchy of classes. - Nat Krause 10:31, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article reworked

I made a number of organizational and copyediting changes today in an attempt to improve the quality of this article. Some areas, however, are still in serious need of expansion; for example, the hard statistics (if available) on the economic status of today's burakumin, an expansion of the burakumin rights movement beyond the BLL, and the sourcing (or, failing that, removal) of a number of claims that appeared dubious to me. The final section on the Hoganji feels problematic for me as it doesn't really flow with the article as it reads now; if anyone can add more context or perspective, please do so, but right the focus on this one sect's relations with the burakumin seems somewhat arbitrary to me. MC MasterChef 09:26, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Responding to Comments about Honganji Section

I agree that the Honganji section I wrote possibly needs expansion and more context. However I do feel it is important due to the large number of Burakumin who were designated Honganji followers by the state. As the quote I cited suggests it is not therefore a case of arbitrarily picking out one particular sect for attention:

""the imperial family is in Tendai, the peerage is in Shingon, the nobility is in Jodo (Honen's followers), the Samurai is in Zen, the beggar is in Nichiren, and Shin Buddhists (Shinran's followers) are at the bottom." (Kasahara 1996)"

ASB 12:26, 10 October 2005 (GMT)

[edit] Reference to "the buraku" on House M.D. worth a mention?

I (an American) had previously associated the concept of "untouchables" with India, so hearing mention of Japanese "untouchables" on the November 14 2006 episode of House, M.D. was interesting. To be honest I am too lazy to properly bring together all the documentation and correct formatting, so I'm not going to edit this article, but someone probably should -- unless passing mention in an American television show is not significant enough to warrant inclusion. Morypcaina 03:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Should we make reference to Douwa Mondai as the politically correct term for burakumin in Japan? --

[edit] Different ethnicity?

Due to social separation for several centuries, I think it's inevitable that there is a greater degree of homogeneity in the Burakumin community than in the wider Japanese ethnicity, and I am sure that there are certain characteristics by which Burakumin can be differentiated. Whether it be characteristics oif their speech, differences in appearance, culture, or even just slight genetic differences, it seems certain that 5 centuries of forced separation would yield certain differences. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.251.68.181 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

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