User talk:Buddhipriya

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If you post a comment here I will probably answer here in order to keep conversations together. If you prefer reply somewhere else please mention that. Buddhipriya 17:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Nirukta

I don't know if I can contribute to the article in content, but I certainly enjoyed reading it! By the way, you may want to request User:Rudrasharman to weigh in - I recall he had referenced Nirukta (particularly Naighantuka) during the discussions on the Talk:Ashvamedha page. Cheers. Abecedare 07:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The Nirukta article needs some work to divide material properly among Yaska, Nirukta and Nighantu. Basically, Yaska is the author of the eponymous Nirukta, which was a commentary, cast as a treatise on etymology, on the eponymous Nighantu. So, we have an inter-related complex of (a) the Nighantu, an ancient glossary, which gave its name to a genre, (b) the Nirukta, Yaska's commentary on the Nighantu, which also gave its name to a discipline, and (c) Yaska's specific theory of etymology contained in his work. Considering what's already in the Nighantu and Yaska articles, some material should probably be removed or shortened in the Nirukta article. rudra 05:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your excellent edits. I agree completely with the three-pronged approach. I will look to see if I can find any other possible references and will give it another read within a week or so. The use of it as a rhetorical device in commentaries is an application that interests me. I very much appreciate your help in looking at it. Buddhipriya 03:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)



[edit] IAST

I think our views match to such a large extent, that the isolated point on where we (possibly) differ has perhaps been amplified in our discussions. I'll list my opinion on use of IAST below, so that we can judge if we do have any substantial difference of opinion in practice (i.e. not at a "philosophical" level, which may be irrelevant to our editing at wikipedia). In my view:

  • IAST should be specified when:
  1. a term is defined in the lead,
  2. its etymology is traced,
  3. perhaps when it is used for the first time in the article (although this should not be done for every Indian term, especially which are wikilinked and therefore the IAST information is available in their main article)
  4. Transliteration should be preserved in any quoted text; i.e. if the original uses IAST, we have to quote correctly. added later, see PPS below
  • In the rest of the article the Indian terms should be spelled out using only the standard 26 english letters.
  • When Sanksrit shlokas/mantras etc are cited, it is ok to use only IAST and leave out standard english transliteration. The reason for this being that it would be too repetitive to provide the (1) standard English transliteration, (2) the IAST transliteration and (3) English translation ... since including the english translation is a no-brainer (for English wikipedia), if we need to provide only one transliteration IAST is certainly preferable, since it is richer in information.

So leaving aside, any issues regarding why-we-think-what-we-think, is there anything you would change in the above formulation ? Note: I am not really attempting to convince you of my view (or asking you to convert me to IASTranism :-) ) but rather trying to gauge where we differ on this issue.
PS: I realize that my note on the Nastika talk page hurt your feelings. I used the wikipedia short-cut jargon in terming your analysis not incorrect but "OR"; I can see how that comment can come across as accusatory rather than an objective statement. I apologize for the same. Abecedare 01:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
PPS: I added point 4 after reading at your comments. I very strongly agree with this as a matter of acdemic integrity, but had forgotten to list it earlier. Abecedare 02:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You are always very clear and helpful in how you go about exchanging views, which I appreciate very much. It is very helpful to see your points so clear. I realize that I may not have clearly thought through my own views, so let me try now. This may be disorderly, but I have less experience with the Wiki environment so must start with my own beliefs.

1. IAST is the academic standard for the romanization of Sanskrit.

2. There is the potential for significant information loss if IAST is not used, and the nature of the loss in meaning may not be obvious. I just had the opportunity to review a source text for the Narada Bhakti Sutra that someone placed online and it was almost completely worthless due to use of simple English.

3. If we are to ever have credibility we must get to a point where an Indologist would look at a Wiki page and see that it is not obviously wrong. That requires IAST. Other disciplines such as mathematics allow the use of special notation on pages, so why can't we? I use the word "wrong" because that is how Indologists often see simple English.

4. Based on all of those points, I believe that IAST should be encouraged as the standard of practice for all content. Those who cannot add IAST should not worry about it, but those who can should not be discouraged from doing it.

5. If an editor has added IAST, before reverting it the reversion should be specifically discussed with that editor in order to understand if there was some particular reason why the editor felt the IAST added value to the argument. In the nastika case, my entire point made no sense without IAST. The equivalent in a math article would be removal of some symbol in an equation because it was too confusing.

6. Virtually all of the books in my library that may make good citations for this project are in IAST or Devanagari. If I am to make a quotation of something, to change the IAST would require some process of converting the text to simple English, and I do not know how to do that. I do not think there is a generally-accepted way to do it, since IAST is the standard. So my conversion of the reliable source to simple English would amount to changing the source. Therefore any quotation that uses IAST should be preserved.

7. At a minimum I certainly endorse the mimimal steps you suggest, such using IAST at the time a term is defined, or when etymology is dealt with. You also mention short phrases such as mantras which also would be tedious to show both ways.

8. If there is no standard for how to do this in the Hindusim project, editors may vary in what they do. See this edit for a conversation I am having with User:GourangaUK, who likes IAST. I asked him about it specifically because we are collaborating on an article and I wanted to reach agreement with him before doing much work, which I envision using IAST. So in the absence of any good guideline, it may be good practice for individual editors to come to agreement on how to handle specific articles.

I look forward to discussing all of this with you, since you are so reasonable. Buddhipriya 02:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with many of your points above, especially 1, 2 and 6 where we have no difference of opinion. My reason for "discouraging" use of IAST in general text is not because it is harder to add, but because it is harder to read for a general audience (and, fortunately/unfortunately, our audience is not Indologists - else someone would have brought Indian philosophy up to shape simply out of disgust with its current condition :-) ).
I'd also like to point out that wikipedia's closest "competitors" are other encyclopedias, led by Encyclopedia Britannica and Encarta - neither of which use IAST etc at all (not even to the extent that I specified above). They (and IMO wikipedia) are very different from academic journals which are aimed at a different audience. Also, most of the math written on wikipedia wouldn't survive a peer review for a mathematical journal article; although (at its best) it is entirely appropriate for a general purpose encyclopedia.
One honest (not rhetorical) question: Do you believe that using kṛṣṇa (instead of Krishna) at every occurance on wikipedia is advisable ? In my opinion, that will only drive away readers and is inappropriate for this medium.
The above three paragraphs aside, I am glad that we have some broad agreement, on the actual prescription of IAST. Abecedare 02:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Taking your last point first, I think Krishna is a good example of a term where the practice of simply defining it in IAST at first use is fine, and then switching to the commonly-known English equivalent is fine. The goal is not simply "an ostentatious display of scholarship", however gratifying that may be. :)

Regarding "harder to read" for a general audience, I think that issue is overblown. The example with Krishna is a good example where I do agree with you that the loss of a recognizable English vowel is likely to confuse the reader (ṛ versus ri). Removal of visible vowel cues for the English reader is a problem with that vowel in particular because it is perceived by the English reader as a loss of information - where has the vowel gone? The confusion between śiva and shiva is of this type, a loss of the aspiration cue - where has the h gone? For a word the English reader is likely to have heard before and has a conceptual model of already, such as Krishna or Shiva, the loss of cues is upsetting. On the other hand, most of the IAST notation involves adding cues to letters, trying to deal with the 42% loss of symbols in the Latin-1 character set. So we get rāja (king) instead of raja (dust). The addition of the cues may not disturb the reader in the same way as removal of cues.

By the way, I have had a few nice exchanges with people related to the Buddhist pages, where they are trying to decide what to do about Chinese and Japanese characters. So I think this conversation we are having has applicability across Wikipedia.

I hope no one in NASA is relying on Wikipedia for math formulas, based on what you say.

When you mention that "fortunately/unfortunately, our audience is not Indologists - else someone would have brought Indian philosophy up to shape simply out of disgust with its current condition" you have raised an important point about attraction and retention of experts. If we want to improve the quality of the articles, it would helpful to get some people participating who actually know something about the topics, or at least possess a book on the subject and are willing to read it.

The problem of Wikipedia:Expert_retention is of particular importance to Indology, where access to sources is more limited than access to information about Anna Nicole Smith. There are probably thousands of people on Wikipedia who are monitoring news reports about her tragic death and can instantly detect and fix irregularities in details about her. But how many people on Wikipedia are prepared to tackle recensions of the Vedas? Is it true that there are but 12 recensions of the Samaveda, as is claimed (without reference) in the article? Does controversy rage over that question as it does over the father of Nicole's child? (In fact, I am the real father of the child, and I think I shall put that into the article now so the truth can be known.)

I am certainly no expert on anything, but I wish we could somehow attract real Indology experts to this project. We could learn so much from them if they were here. But they will never come unless we make them feel welcome and needed. We must somehow create a belief that it is possible to contribute serious material here. That is the vision I have.

Buddhipriya 03:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

As we have discussed before, editing on wikipedia is often guided more by passion than expertise; sometimes to the encyclopedia's detriment. I am sure not many "experts" are attracted to editing anonymously, without credit - especially when faced with vandals, trolls and especially uninformed POV pushers. (Speaking of that, you may be interested in this discussion)
So maybe the best idea is to follow Krishna's advice and do our duty/what-we-find -pleaseurable-here and not worry too much about the end results. PS: I know that is not what he said ... and anyway the average wikipedian reading this will be wonder whether we are still talking about Anna Nicole or if we are discussing the Indian dude on The Simpsons instead :-) Abecedare 04:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
... editing on wikipedia is often guided more by passion than expertise, and sometimes sadly with pretense expertise scroll down to "Editor's Note" Abecedare 10:16, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
The New Yorker article is wonderful, thank you for giving me the link. I personally am a past President of the International Association of Federated Organizations, a multinational group working to promote harmony in the world. But I generally prefer to remain incognito when I travel. (In case it is not obvious, these remarks are intended as jokes.) Buddhipriya 21:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This dialog has been very helpful to me in clarifying issues. I have gone over the thread and have tried to refactor it to get a draft of what may become the nucleus of a statement on IAST that we may be able to agree on. If we can get a clear summary that the two of us can agree on, perhaps we could share our points of agreement with others to see if there can be more general consensus reached. Building agreement slowly around even a few points would help the Hinduism Project on this issue. Please give me your reactions to this restatement of ideas:

1. Basic assumptions

  • IAST is the academic standard for the romanization of Sanskrit.
  • In at least some cases there is the potential for significant information loss if IAST is not used, and the nature of the loss in meaning may not be obvious.
  • Currently there is no clear official standard for the use of IAST within the Hinduism Project, leading to inconsistent use of IAST across multiple articles.
  • Since Wikipedia is intended for use by English readers, clarity of communication with English readers is of great importance.
  • IAST may be harder to read for a general audience.
  • While use of IAST may reduce readability for some readers, failure to use IAST may reduce credibility of articles among other readers, but the impact of this loss of credibility is not clear.
  • For some editors, use of IAST is a matter of acdemic integrity. Good faith should be assumed when practice varies between editors, e.g.:
  1. when a term is first used anywhere within an article (not just in the lead) if the editor feels that use of IAST is important to preservation of meaning.
  2. when an editor feels that a particular term may lead to confusion with another Sanskrit term unless IAST is used consistently.
  • Editors who do not know IAST or prefer not to use it are not required to add it in order to create new content. Later editors may adjust IAST usage at a later time in such cases.

2. IAST should be specified when:

  • a term is defined in the lead.
  • its etymology is traced.
  • Transliteration should be preserved in any quoted text; i.e. if the original uses IAST, we have to quote correctly.
  • When Sanksrit shlokas/mantras etc are cited, it is ok to use only IAST and leave out standard english transliteration. The reason for this being that it would be too repetitive to provide the (1) standard English transliteration, (2) the IAST transliteration and (3) English translation ... since including the english translation is standard (for English wikipedia), if we need to provide only one transliteration IAST is certainly preferable, since it is richer in information.

3. Except as noted above, IAST should not be routinely used when:

  • A term has a common English equivalent (e.g., Ganesha for gaņeśa, Krishna for kṛṣṇa).

[edit] Ishta-deva

I'm hoping to do some clean-up work on this article in the future (Ishta-deva), and thought you might like to add something also? Currently it's in a right mess. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for asking! I had not seen the page before, and I agree with you that it is a mess. I have added it to my watch list and will try to pick at it a bit. I am reducing my time on Wikipedia somewhat and am concentrating on fewer articles, which I am listing on my "to do" list on my user page. I will add that one to the list, as it is an important concept. Regarding the Bhakti Sutras, I have decided to use this as an opportunity to study them more closely and have a couple of books on order related to them. My method there will be to look closely at a verse or two every few days for my own benefit, and if I see anything that might be of value I can make an edit to the article. Buddhipriya 16:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Ganesha article

Thanks for the heads-up. I've added the article to my watchlist and also made a request for help here. It's becoming a bit of an irritation.

On a more positive note - would you know any article where this photograph I uploaded last year might find a good home? Best Wishes, ys Gouranga(UK) 11:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Maleabroad's new sock is also under discussion at User_talk:Abecedare#Socks and at User_talk:Aldux#Sock_puppets. I think it is only a matter of time now before this particular sock is extinguished but we need to keep all of the pages that he has been working on on watch list for a while as a new sock will probably appear. Who says there is no proof of reincarnation? On Wikipedia it happens every day.
Regarding the photo, thanks for letting me know of it. If you can add any additional details about which festival it was at, the city in which the festival took place, and the size and function of the murti it would make it even more useful in some articles, which could include specific festivals, temples, etc. The image has the look of a large-scale parade image designed for utimate water immersion on Ganesh Chaturthi. Is that in fact what it was? If so, it could be a good illustration to explain that particular type of image, which produces a thriving seasonal economic boost in some parts of India. Buddhipriya 16:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
It was from the Ganesh Chaturthi festival in Mumbai in 2004 - I've added the additional information to the image summary. The murthi was gigantic in size, I may have another photo somewhere which shows the size relation with the onlookers below. Will have a look for it... Ys, Gouranga(UK) 09:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
The new photo showing it to scale is very nice. The use of large moveable murtis during Ganesh Chaturthi is potentially an issue that could be illustrated by this, particularly if you know if the murti was in fact a temporary one designed to be carried later in the festival parades and finally immersed in water. I cannot quite make out if the location was an enclosed temple, or one of the temporary pavillions that are sometimes built for these images. If it was within an enclosed space with doors, the image would be too large to get out the door (perhaps). If it was an immersion image it may have been placed under a canopy or temporary pavillion from which it could be removed easily. This may seem like a minor detail, but it actually would help with classification of exactly what type of murti it is. From the detail picture it strikes me as of the sort of design and construction that is often used for the parade floats, in which case the material would have been a sort of papier mache or other temporary construction designed to dissolve in water. So anything you can say about the enclosure would be an interesting commentary.
Iconographically it is one of the standard modern forms, with the two upper arms holding the goad and noose (symbols of stimulation and retardation of action) which are common emblems of his role as Vignesha (Lord of Obstacles). The lower hand in the gesture of "no fear" and the other hand holding a modaka are standard for this four-armed variant. The iconography is therefore a good example of a very common representation. Compare this example of the same general form, but in that example the objects held in the upper hands are not clearly of the same type. Buddhipriya 21:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The murthi was within a large temporary Pavillion which was also no more than 30mins walk away from the beach. From that and what you say above I'm assuming he was ultimately going to be immersed into the sea. When I visited there where literally thousands of people queing for darshan, some waiting for many hours. Ys, Gouranga(UK) 17:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Wonderful! I think we have figured it out. If you can add the above information about the pavillion and the crowd to the image description it would preserve those sociological facts, which taken with the date of the event make it certain that this was designed as a sort of "parade float". Now that we have pinned it down, I will work on getting it in somewhere. FYI, there is an envioronmentalist angle here, which is there is sometimes criticism of the festival's climax, which involves immersion of hundreds of dissovable images in bodies of water. Buddhipriya 17:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] IAST template

I changed the IAST tags to Unicode in the Panini article for three reasons: to consistently use one template through the article, to make the font in the article appear consistently, and because it looks to me like the extended functionality of the tag wasn't being made use of. If I'm in error about this last please feel free to revert. --Stlemur 03:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and reverted it pending further discussion with you about it. Thank you very much for your reply, as I enjoy dialog on this. The confusion between the IAST tag and the Unicode tag comes up frequently. They achieve different things. The purpose of the IAST tag is to specify which of the transliteration methods for the Devanagari writing system is being used, as there are several different methods for doing this. So when Sanskrit text is involved, the reason for using IAST is to assist in determining what the text actually says. The IAST encoding system uses glyphs which exist in both Unicode and ASCII forms. However the Unicode and ASCII implementations of the underlying numerical values for the same IAST glyph differ for some glyphs. In other words, the Unicode tag specifies a type of computer encoding, but does not specify a transliteration method. In contrast, the IAST tag specifies a transliteration method but does not specify an encoding method. On Wikipedia, which is Unicode-compliant environment (e.g, the editor's interface provides Unicode quick-pick characters), Unicode is assumed as the encoding method for the IAST transliteration method.
So for articles involving Sanskrit text, the general practice is to use the IAST tag, and any articles in which the Unicode is tag is used for a Sanskrit term are gradually being converted to IAST by most of the editors who work on Indic articles. If you spot an article that has both Unicode and IAST, check to see if the words in Unicode tags are Sanskrit or some other language. If they are Sanskrit, the best practice in my view would be to convert the Unicode tags to IAST for the Sanskrit terms. However you may have a different view, which I would very much like to understand.
We have been trying to compile a new guideline for the use of IAST in Indic text articles, and you can read something about that on this talk page User_talk:Buddhipriya#IAST. I could also point to some discussions that have been had on this during the development of language templates for some Buddhist articles which use Sanskrit and Pali terms. (Pali is also written sometimes in Devanagari, thus requiring IAST). You can read Template:DisplayTranslations#Using_Template:IAST_with_.22text.22_parameters_for_Devanagari_transliteration for an example of IAST embedding within a more general Unicode multilingual template.
I also encourage use of the [[Category:Articles containing IAST]] tag on articles that include IAST, as this category helps with quick identification of where the IAST content is located. This is a fairly new category and has not been propagated as widely as it should.
Please reply so I will understand your views fully. Buddhipriya 03:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Right work page

Good suggestion. The last time I tried to set one of these up I did it wrong. Could you please create the page and post a link on the discussion page? Sorry for the extra work. This time I'll nake a note on how to do it on my user page. Thanks.--Cberlet 13:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello, and thanks for getting in touch. In my most recent post I actually made two different suggestions, so I am unsure which one you are describing as "good". :) One suggestion was to use a specific resolution method involving a work list, which really should only be set up if the parties involved have agreed to use that particular tool. I would not suggest that you go straight to using that method unless other parties also think it would be helpful, as then the argument could just change focus to whether or not the list approach was good or not rather than to working on the list.
The second suggestion was that you consider getting in touch with the friendly folks at the Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal to invite someone to enter the discussion as a neutral third party. The Medcab is an informal group, as opposed to the Wikipedia:Mediation_Committee or the Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee, both of which use more formal processes. If informal mediation with Medcab fails you can still take the case to one of those two formal committees. A request for help from Medcab must come from one of the parties involved in the conflict (e.g., you) and cannot be initiated by a potential mediator. If you open a Medcab case, a work page will be created automatically for you as part of the dispute resolution process used by Medcab. Here is an example of a standard Medcab work page, which is used to track discussions in a standardized way by Medcab mediators: Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2007-03-11_Ohio_State_University.
Does this clarify my suggestions? If you wish to discuss any of these ideas further, I would be happy to hear from you again. And thank you for trying to take steps to reduce the conflict and work collaboratively with other editors. It will all work out OK in the long run. Buddhipriya 17:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] External Links

How many sentences in a paragraphn should at least in a link to have on wikipedia? I need to to know this for future information. Neptunekh 05:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for getting in touch. The Wikipedia policies on exteral links are fairly detailed, and you can read them at WP:EL. One thing to look is whether or not the web site cites any reliable sources for what it is saying or not. Also, the site must have some substantial additive value. Also check the guidelines at Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam which is taking an increasingly hard line on external links. Hope this helps. Buddhipriya 06:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advaita

Alright, I can prepare a presentation for you. Please start by reading this, in case you haven't already. The title of the subsection in question is POV. It would be better to say "Buddha as a non-dualist." There are no sources cited; for this reason I find it somewhat odd that you reverted my edit which gave a general reference. Madhyamika was the first fully developed non-dual philosophy, and its brand of non-dualism is (in my and David Loy's view) more sophisticated than any later philosophies such as Advaita. I hope you can see how a Buddhist would interpret the implication that Advaita is the true development of the Buddha's thought as objectionable. Arrow740 08:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for getting in touch. I will read the paper that you have provided a link to in detail (I will not have time to do so before making this reply). The link says "This paper is part of a Ph. D. thesis on "nonduality" which will be submitted to National University of Singapore." and as such the web site probably does not qualify as a reliable source per WP:RS because it is a "self-published" source. Could you please raise the issue on the talk page for the article rather than here, so other editors will be able to see your comments. You very well may be right on the point you are raising, I am just unclear on what it is and how it is cited. Let's continue dialog on that talk page. Buddhipriya 16:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Paragraphs

How many paragraphs should be a in a link? Wikipedia doesn't talk about that. Neptunekh 21:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I do not understand your question. Did you see my reply to your previous question? The Wikipedia policies on exteral links are fairly detailed, and you can read them at WP:EL. One thing to look is whether or not the web site cites any reliable sources for what it is saying or not. Also, the site must have some substantial additive value. Also check the guidelines at Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam which is taking an increasingly hard line on external links. Hope this helps. Buddhipriya 05:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amfipoli

Hi, I added a paragragraph in the article Amfipoli. Could you look at and maybe it edit? It's the last paragraph. Here's the link to the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amfipoli Thanks! Neptunekh 07:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not see that you added a paragraph, but I do see that you added an external link. For information on Wiki policy regarding external links see WP:EL. I don't know anything about the subject, but it seems that the link does not add much that could not be in the article itself. I see that at least one other editor removed the link after you added it, so its value may be unclear. Buddhipriya 17:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A barnstar

The Original Barnstar
this is for your good work with articles relating to hinduism. Peace:) James, La gloria è a dio 21:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • If you comment please do so on my talk page:) Peace:) --James, La gloria è a dio 21:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I have seen you because I have a lot of articles relating to Hinduism on my watchlist. I have also seen you in the histories of them because on a few occasions I have reverted vandalism on the Hinduism article.:) Have a nice week:) --James, La gloria è a dio 22:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forums

I recently found a forum post by our mutual friend which I've added to the fan club page. It's quite illuminating, as are the rest of his posts on that board. Have a look and let me know what you think. Orpheus 07:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

He does not seem to have gotten much support on that forum, but you are right that it is a clear recruitment effort for meatpuppets. Buddhipriya 15:50, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newbie edits on Buddhism page

Namaste! You have the energy of 20 men (or 40 me) and I applaud your righteous efforts. Unfortunately, my own Wiki-editing time is so constrained, I can barely do more than focus on one minor article at a time currently. (This month's article for me is Ayatana.) So, hope you don't mind, I thought an easy way to quell my concerns was to simply dump some (maybe too much?) PED text on the talk page. (Honestly, I would find trying to maintain order on such popular pages as Buddhism and Buddha way to overwhelming -- if nothing else, due to my own limited knowledge and interests.) So, for now, I send you good wishes and bow humbly to your wise use of might. And, like you, I look forward to future collaborations. With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 01:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hindutva revert

Dear friend, Just wanted to let you know that India is multi religion country and that statement in Hindutva page reflects that Only Hindus respect their country and all other religions have no respect for their country of birth. All religious scripts of India define to respect and protect their country of birth, Hence the statement in this page should also state about other religions. Please let me know if you still need more clarifications and would be glad to help you out. with love John Paul 05:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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