Talk:BS Zelda no Densetsu Kodai no Sekiban

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This article is part of WikiProject The Legend of Zelda series, an attempt to improve Wikipedia's articles related to The Legend of Zelda series. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Contents 1 Shovel 2 Abbreviations 3 Title mistranslation 3.1 Article name 4 Title Rōmaji 5 Status as a Remake 6 FIRST ONLINE GAMES EVER???

[edit] Shovel

The Shovel also got a makeover. While in ALttP it was merely a plot device, it could now be used to dig for Rupees. >>> If I recall you can also dig for Rupees in the original too... Jarwulf 06:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, I think that was only added in the GBA version (which comes after this game), as I remember being impressed by that change. However it's been a while since I've played the SNES version so I might be mistaken. Garrett^Talk 07:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I might be wrong but I remember digging around near the village and dark world for fun and occasionally getting some really cool stuff. If course the valuable things were in the actual digging plots.. Jarwulf 02:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC) On the other hand I suppose I may be confusing it with another Zelda or the digging contest Jarwulf 02:01, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abbreviations

Isn't there some rule against just using abbreviations? I mean, that we should refer to the game as A Link to the Past every time? Lockeownzj00 19:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

The way the rule is worded it's talking about technical abbreviations like e.g., i.e., etc., and whatever else. A Link to the Past is a loooooong thing to write out 50 times over, and it just makes it easier to read. You'll also find this sort of shortening on Grand Theft Auto III and all sorts of other pages. It seems to be pretty widely accepted, as long as the reader is informed of it before it is first used. Anway, I believe the official rules are somewhere in the Wikipedia:Disambiguation and abbreviations mess. Enjoy. :) Garrett^Talk 23:42, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title mistranslation

I noticed something when looking at the kanji and hiragana on the original title/loading screen for the game. What first caught my eye was the character の, which is a genitive case particle which indicates possession or close association. So that started me thinking that "Ancient Stone Tablets" might not be the right translation, because there's no possession in that phrase; you can't possess an adjective, which is how "ancient" is being used.

Fortunately, my girlfriend has been studying Japanese for nine years, so I asked her. She had a lot more input on it.

The kanji used for kodai (古代) can be better translated as "ancient world" or "ancient times." This is with 古 meaning "old" or "ancient" and 代, which can mean a few things when written using that character. It can mean world, society, age (as in an era), or generation, but refers in this case (with no suffix) to a place, not a person. Thus, it doesn't translate to something like "the Ancients," which would be kodaijin (古代人).

"Stone tablets" is a pretty good translation, with 石 meaning "stone" or "rock," and 盤 meaning some sort of record. The most common literal translation of sekiban (石盤) would be "slate," which is another word for a stone tablet.

Thus, for kodai no sekiban (古代の石盤) a more accurate translation would be something like "Stone Tablets of the Ancient Times" or "Stone Tablets of the Ancient World." "Slates of the Ancient World" is also acceptable. We can be positive that "tablets" is in its plural form, incidentally, because in the game you collect eight of them. Singular vs. plural is really nebulous in Japanese. For an example with which you're probably familiar, one ninja would be ninja (忍者), and multiple ninja would also be just ninja (忍者).

Check it yourself, if you like. You can do a straight (somewhat clumsy) translation at SYSTRAN Language Translation Technology and you can check the individual meanings of things at Jeffrey's Japanese⇔English Dictionary Server. Kanji makes my head hurt, and if you spend too much time with it, it will make your head hurt too.

Oh, and BSゼルダの伝説 古代の石盤 would be literally "BS Zelda no densetsu: Kodai no Sekiban," or "BS The Legend of Zelda: Stone Tablets of the Ancient World." (Densetsu [伝説] translates as "legend," and is actually part of the title, so it would be "BS The Legend of Zelda," not "BS Zelda.")

—Aleph One

I see you've already cross-posted this on the forum, so I'll write my main reply there instead. The name should definitely be changed, BUT some mention still needs to be made to the old name, as that keyword string is how a lot of people would find this page via Google etc. Perhaps a mistranslation line or two like what Satellaview has regarding Bandai is appropriate. Hm. Garrett^Talk 11:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

I think this article should be moved to BS The Legend of Zelda: Stone Tablets of Antiquity (or a variant of said title) to reflect the more accurate translation as well as satisfy Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). What does everyone think? I didn't want to move the article sans discussion. Guermantes 23:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC) Moved. Guermantes 01:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It makes sense to use the non-English translation, in my opinion. There has not been a game released under the title BS The Legend of Zelda: Stone Tablets of Antiquity, and thusly, we should follow up and not use the accurate translation of the Japanese title. Would you move Das Boot to The Boat? - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The "Das Boot" example is great for a well known film marketed in the U.S. with its German title (which can be reproduced as it originally appeared). However, Kodai no Sekiban is essentially unintelligible and meaningless to English speaking audiences. Would you move Sin and Punishment: Successor of the Earth to Tsumi to Batsu: Chikyū no Keishōsha? I myself agree that it often makes more sense to prefer a proper noun in another language to an English translation (although this is against Wikipolicy). However, I think this is an exception. Guermantes 14:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That is absurd reasoning. It makes no sense to create a false name (regardless of the translation) in place of a foreign name. We report in English on everything, not make everything English. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to scan a document from Nintendo Company Limited which has the title written out in English as "Ancient Stone Tablets". Kaze no Takuto is another example. People say a "Takt" is not Japanese, so the word should be Baton or Conductor's Stick or something, when it says on the Japanese packaging in English - Takt of Wind. NCL is the final decider of what is official, even for English materials, if no English source exists. --TSA 03:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Kodai no Sekiban is indeed Ancient Stone Tablets. The Wind Waker however... It's nice if NCL says Takt of the Wind, but to my best knowledge 'takt' is not an English word. Takt is German, Baton is English. JackSparrow Ninja 03:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Please read the entirety of this conversation ("Title Mistranslation") to see why I reverted back to "Stone Tablets of Antiquity". Guermantes 16:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

In the end it means the same, and in the end, Nintendo goes for what sounds best. If you would literally translate the Japanese title of Majora's Mask, you would get Mask of Majora. The Minish Cap -> The Hat of Mystery. Tingle blabla -> The Freshly Picked Rose Coloured Rupee Land of Tingle. Yet, that is not how English works. Ancient Stone Tablets is the generally accepted name, and if your friend was good in Japanese AND English, she would acknowledge that Ancient Stone Tablets is the best translation.

You're alone in this, and unless you come up with a better reasoning that convinces the other editors as well, we're keeping Ancient Stone Tablets. JackSparrow Ninja 06:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

OK... now that that seems to be settled, do we change the actual article title to Ancient Stone Tablets, or what? Sraan 04:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title Rōmaji

On the Japanese page of "The Legend of Zelda series", the game is called "BSゼルダの伝説 古代(いにしえ)の石版" (BS Zeruda no Densetsu: Kodai (Inishie) no Sekiban). Does that mean the kanji for "Kodai" is supposed to be read "Inishie". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.196.61 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Status as a Remake

I think this game should be moved to a different section besides remakes. This isn't a remake, but it takes place in the world of a Link to the Past. I'm not sure about its direct prequel though, which took place in the original Zelda's world, but it was more of a Third Quest than a remake.

I'd say this is definitely similar enough to qualify as a remake. Also, please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Jeff Silvers 16:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FIRST ONLINE GAMES EVER???

Wouldn't this along with the other BS Zelda game be considered the very first online games ever made? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.155.41 (talk) 20:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

The other BS Zelda-game is indeed the first online console game. This came later though, so this should only go into the other one. JackSparrow Ninja 20:08, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright thanks, but now I'm wondering if these Zelda games were the first online console games, then what were the first online nonconsole games? I mean barely any people had computers back then, much less internet. Ohwell, it's still kinda funny then, to think that everyone says Nintendo has no online games or anything and yet they were the first to have them for consoles.65.54.155.41 02:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)