Talk:Browncoat
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[edit] 'Verse
From the article: "In the Firefly universe (or, as they call it, "The 'Verse") ..." Who are "they"? Haakon 17:26, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
- The people who live in the 'verse, of course. :-)
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- Actually, this is a good question, pointing out a fine distinction that should be made in the article. Just as Browncoat has different meanings inside and outside the show, 'verse does as well. Within the show, it's merely slang for "universe", often used as a colloquialism for "known space". Outside the show, it refers to the fictional world of Firefly and Serenity, the main SF branch of the Whedonverse. With this distinction, the line quoted from the article above is confounding the two uses, and should be changed. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Origins as a fan term
This seems like as good a place as any, so I may as well ask... does anybody know who coined the term 'Browncoat' as a term for Firefly fans? I think doing some digging and addressing that might be good for the article. Maybe it's just me, but the quote from Joss Whedon almost implies that he came up with it, y'know? Not that it's a bad quote or anything, but I think this is an issue at least worth asking questions about.--MythicFox 19:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
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- it was actually started by the fans-- am digging up sources now -- plange 02:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Oh, take your time. I figure it was started by the fans. What I mean is that I'm curious as to where the term originated, whether it was a particular message board or what.--MythicFox 11:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Got it added same night, sorry, forgot to update here ;-) plange 13:15, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Clarification
Hi JeffG! I just saw you reverted an article I worked on last night and have to say I was surprised you labeled it as "fannish" -- I was actually trying to change the tone to not be fannish so we could get that "tone" tag off. Wasn't sure why you said the headings were more in keeping with MOS? I'm new, so if you could point me to the place in it that I violated that would be great. I'm learning :-)
Also, I was actually trying to make the headlines more clear that there were two connotations, per the last line of the opening graph and wanted to also clarify with this opening of the first heading section "The initial connotation of the term 'Browncoats' described characters in the Firefly universe. It was slang used within the show for the Independent Faction" -- thought this more accurately described them since this "In the Firefly universe, Browncoats were soldiers who fought for the Independents" makes it sound like it was a subgroup of the Independent faction instead of a slang term for the Independents and I wanted to also clarify that it was slang used within the show, not slang used by people who watched it. What do you think? -- plange 13:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Uncapping the headings (which I just did) is in-line with Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings). As a rule of thumb, if it isn't the first word and it isn't a proper noun, it shouldn't be capitalized. EVula 15:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks! What about the headings I'd changed to initially? (Besides the uncapping?) -- plange 17:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Sorry I wasn't clearer about my meaning. For the headings, I re-read the intro sentence:
- It has two connotations, one within the original show, and one among the show's fans.
- I felt the new headings, "original meaning" and "second meaning", and the use of the verbiage
- The initial connotation of the term 'Browncoats' described characters in the Firefly universe. It was slang used within the show…
- rather than the more concise
- In the Firefly universe, Browncoats were soldiers who fought…
- to be needlessly repetitive. The intro, after all, is only 2 sentences and immediately preceded the paragraph in question. The reader would expect the first heading would refer to the within-the-show connontation and the second the fan connotation, so "fictional meaning" and "fan term" would provide a little variety in vocabulary while confirming the expectation. The opening phrase "within the Firefly universe" firmly and concisely establishes, per Wikipedia guidelines on fictional topics, that we are talking about fiction, thus avoiding the fannish aspect without overburdening a statement about the story. (Uh-oh — I'm beginning to channel my high-school English teachers. ☺) None of these elements are part of WP:MOS, as far as I know — just the heading case fixes. But edit summaries are brief and I was in a hurry. My bad. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry I wasn't clearer about my meaning. For the headings, I re-read the intro sentence:
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- Cool, okay, how about this:
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- In the Firefly universe, Browncoats is slang for the Independent Faction -- plange 21:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
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- Might I suggest a variation?
- In the Firefly universe, "Browncoat" is the slang term for a member of the Independent Faction, which lost to the Alliance in the Unification War.
- It blends your sentence into the current text and avoids the correct but somewhat jarring use of the phrase "'Browncoats' is". It also properly quotes a term, like the second section does (and the intro should), and bolds it as an initial use of the article title in a particular connotation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- sounds good to me, thanks! (was going to add the quotes, bolding, internal links and rest of sentence of course, was just working on wording)... plange
- Might I suggest a variation?
[edit] Flag
ok i have one question, i've seen all the firefly episodes, and i never once saw the independance flag. so how do we know that that is the actual flag besides it's here. i just got kinda confused about that if you can clear it up for me i'd be thankful
peace-Three ways round 23:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
- The same. I don't dispute the {{PD-self}} of the image; but what legitimacy within the 'verse do we have? — pd_THOR | =/\= | 16:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
i did a quick image serch on google typeing in quite a few firefly related subjects and flag and couldn't come up with anything remotely simalar to that. let me know if we can find out who put it there and where they found it.
peace-Three ways round 22:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
If it's any help, I've seen the flag used and posted on several firefly related pages. 71.255.81.144 03:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
could you tell us at least one of the sites' addresses. We need to have proof to be allowed to keep the flag up, and one of those websites could be used as a source/refrence. and we could use it pretty soon because the flag was nominated for deletion.
thanx
peace-Three ways round 15:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- It was nominated for deletion (discussion), but there's no reasonable rationale for it to be deleted; at most, it should be removed from the two mainspace articles it is used in. EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
i agree comepletely. I'm gonna go look to see if i can find some of these websites the person above was talking about. Also like i said in the discussion you mentioned above maybe changeing the caption to someting more talking about the 'Browncoat fans', and less about the TV Browncoats might help please some more people.
peace-Threewaysround 17:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey i did a google image search for Browncoats and came up with a few hits. Only theres a catch it's a triangle, not a rectangle like the one on the page. if you Google image search ' Browncoats Triangle ' you can get a good look at a patch of it. Also Normal google searching ' Browncoats Triangle ' i found a bunch of 'official' T-Shirts and other paraphineilia with the flag (again in a triangle) on it. So i'm thinking that my idea above, about changing the caption to "the official Flag of the Browncoat Fan nation" Will probibly have more weight now. Any thoughts??
peace-Threewaysround 19:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Flan" quote
The version on the Browncoat page conflicts markedly with the one on Wikiquote. A Google search turns up no support for the version on this page, and only three hits outside of Wikiquote itself for the construction on that site. With that little support, I'm loath to change either of the quotes, but obviously one (or both!) is wrong. Anybody know which? ShaleZero 07:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Origin of fan term: As far as I can tell, it was me
I've added a link to the old official Firefly board where I and poster Mother Magi first suggested the term "Brown Coats" be used for fans on October 4, 2002, predating the other cited links in this article, and predating other posts on the official board. Believe me, as my one super-lame-claim-to-fame, I have dug through that board looking for any earlier post making this suggestion, but I have yet to find one. Kelly began using the term after I had, but I don't think her old blog posts are archived to confirm it. If you do find a post predating mine please correct this page -- and also please inform me. I wouldn't want to go on living a lie, if lie it be. --Boradis 19:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
