Talk:Broccoflower
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[edit] Origin
In Dutch and German this vegetable is called Romanesco and also in French Chou romanesco, and it is said that its origin is in the neighbourhood of Rome, Italy. Only on the english wiki it is said that it is originating from Holland, which seems to be not true then.
Many sources (although all cited are english language) recognise broccoflower as being of Dutch origin, while non record an origin or even a passing comment of origin in Rome or elsewhere. Broccoli Romanesco on the otherhand does show evidence of roots in "Northern Italy" rather than Rome, but this could just be an anomaly owing to the fact its exact origins are somewhat unclear. Xyhfna 22:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
According to the seed company Runåbergs' page about this seed, Broccolo Romanesco has been grown in northern Italy for hundreds of years. The name of this vegetable also implies Italian origins. Hnorbeck 07:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Type
This article states that broccoflower is a cross between broccoli and cauliflower, but other sources on the net states otherwise [1]. This need to be checked and fixed.
--nct 16:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Not only does it state that it is a cross, it also states that it isn't. It seems to me that when it's stating that it is a cross, the intent is, perhaps, that the name is the result of a cross between the other two names, but the vegetable itself is not. Even if that is not the case, the article needs to be cleaned up as it contradicts itself.
Jbramley 11:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
The article also claims that it's chartreuse in colour, but shows a photo of a clearly intense green, not particularly yellowy looking specimen. Is this a case of a badly colour-adjusted photo or an inaccurate description?
Regarding the cross/not cross, the page on Cauliflower indicates that broccoflower is, in fact, a hybrid between the two. However, this is another Wikipedia article and cannot be used as an absolute reference. 69.181.120.218 20:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
After some investigation, I'm wondering -- is it possible that there are two sources of the word broccoflower? I found [2] which indicates that Broccoflower® is a registered trademark of Tanimura & Antle™, sold as a green cauliflower.
Therefore, is it possible that there are two things called broccoflower, one a hybrid and the other a brand of green cauliflower? Additionally, a google image search turns up what appear to be at least two very different looking things: [3]69.181.120.218 21:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Further investigation shows that there are indeed two very distinct forms of Broccoflower which would appear to be of different origins. One shows distinctive nodular conic protrusions from the fractal head, the other resembles the traditional caulifower in all but colour. It is unclear if the term broccoflower is a brandname outside of the United States (although a registered trademark does exist within the US); instances of the same vegetable (the one resembling a cauliflower) appear under the name but are not produced by Tanimura & Antle™. Two distinct cultivars are available "Broccoli Romanesco"[4] and "Cauliflower Verdant"[5], both of which would appear to be natural variations of the species both of which produce various shapes, sizes and colours (including red, purple, green, yellow and white). Xyhfna 22:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/images/Romanesco/ is possibly useful as disambiguation information, although "original source" for this information is still unknown. Xyhfna 23:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the apparent contradiction by rewording the article and has also removed the need for one of the citations. The article should now conform to the Wikipedia:NPOV, this dosen't get us any closer to the classification of this unusual vegetable (the Broccoflower). It is becoming clear that the two "Broccoflowers" should be separated as for one, the "Broccoli Romanesco", it is simply a common misnomer. Xyhfna 16:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The picture illustrating the article is not of Broccolo Romanesco, but rather a green type of cauliflower, which is also common in Italy, e.g. something like this type. As for the colour of Broccolo romanesco, there are several different cultivars, some of them are light green, others are yellow-green. The article says "If left growing, the plant will actually turn white like the commonly known cauliflower", which is totally wrong. I've grown Broccolo Romanesco in my garden for a number of years, and they never turn white. If left growing, they develop into yellow flowers instead. One colour phenomenon though is that the heads may turn purplish if the plants are transplanted into soil which is too cold in spring. I've seen it myself, just need to refind the citation for it. Hnorbeck 07:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Romanesco
Various sites (for example, Fractal Food) I have come across online suggest that plant taxonomists cannot reach an agreement about wether Romanesco belongs to the Broccoli group, or Bortrytis (Cauliflower). I think this article should be edited to reflect this, and perhaps a separate entry on Romanesco (Vegetable) be created.
There are already a couple of other entries: Brocciflower and Romanescu. I added a photo to the former and the latter is a single line - it might be worth building out one or the other. Cowfish 14:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Get the facts straight
I am no botanist, but I know contradiction when I read it, and this article contradicts itself within two paragraphs:
- There are two cultivars of Brassica oleracea (the cabbage) which commonly share the name Broccoflower. It would appear that they are a result of cross breading broccoli and cauliflower.
...
- The claim that the Broccoflower is a cross between brocolli and cauliflower cannot be readily substantiated, and may simply be a misconception; The plant being actually a type of cauliflower.[citation needed]
Needless to say, this is highly unprofessional and unencyclopedic. While controversy about this plant's precise taxonomy may well exist, having the article contradict itself is not the way to make it NPOV.
Someone who actually knows about vegetable taxonomy should straighten this mess out and add cited facts.--NeantHumain 22:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually this is not as contradictory as you suggest.
An "appearance" is just that, i.e. what something looks like, in this case it looks like a cross between a cauliflower and a broccoli - there is no claim that is is or is not the result of such cross breading.
The statement on the other hand owes its origins to a different author, and simply states (without verification) that either, or both, cultivar(s) may really be just an unusual cauliflower.
The issue lies not in the fact someone may misinterpret them as contradictory (as has evidently been the case here), but in the ambiguity of both the language used and the origins of these unusual vegetables.
The article doesn't give any point of view, and merely states the ambiguity of the vegetables origin, therefore surely IS consistent with the NPOV policy.
The bigger concern surely is that the taxonomy section clearly labels it as a hybrid when no agreement on classification has been agreed - this is inconsistent with the NPOV as it shows bias, and this error of judgement can be seen on all the pages that have a direct relation to this page (i.e. all the pages detailing members of Brassica oleracea).
Xyhfna 15:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Resolving the issue
I have edited the pages: Brocciflower, Broccoflower, Cauliflower and Broccoli to reflect what I believe is the truth.
Brocciflower is a genetically engineered plant that appeared in the 90's. Broccoflower is a naturally occurring plant whose origins are not known. I do not think there exists two cultivars of a Broccoflower as the article states; this simply arised from confusing the natural plant resembling broccoli and cauliflower with the actual human-made cross bread. The term "Romanesco" is a synonym for the unique Broccoflower varient and cannot be realated to the human-made corss bread. XApple 00:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
