Talk:British Invasion

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Contents 1 Rename proposal 2 Missing bands 3 Numbers don't add up 4 Article needs fixing 5 Yardbirds with Eric Clapton? 6 Dubious vagina comment? 7 Citations 8 Sources 9 Urgent work needed

[edit] Rename proposal

To me, the term "British Invasion" seems parochial and unnecessarily biased towards America. I would suggest renaming the article "British beat boom".

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.253.36.50 (talk) 19:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Parochial or not it was dubbed "British Invasion" by the media in 1964. With all due respect, it's a bit late to start renaming it. Cheers, Vera, Chuck & Dave 20:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

While it undoubtedly WAS parochial - or perhaps more accurately "America-centric" - it became an expression that has stuck. So it is valid as an article. But in that sense the article should make clear that it was a colloquial phrase used (almost exclusively) in the USA. And that was in part because of its history with the British. eg - I'm not sure that Australians referred to that music as "British Invasion" We should also check whether it was described that way by the Canadians - a nation that had a different colonial experience with the British! Davidpatrick 20:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It's an article about British bands written primarily from an American perspective. Seems pretty parochial to me. Perhaps we could have two articles: one about the British beat boom, with the early paragraphs about the history and roots of those bands, and a second called British Invasion, specifically about their impact on the American charts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.255.116.13 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Missing bands

there are alot of bands missing on that list.................Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.167.80 (talk • contribs) .

you're missing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.31.125.206 (talk • contribs) .

Yeah thats because led zepplin and deep purple wern't around in the early 1960's when the real british invasion happened led zepplin originated from the yarbirds which even then was 3 years later get it right man. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.195.244.67 (talk • contribs) .

Pink Floyd?? BeavisSanchez 08:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Bowie is also missing... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.178.114.91 (talk • contribs) .

Can't forget Jethro Tull- they were around back then, and contributed at least three albums to the invasion scene, most notably Aqualung and Thick as a Brick. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TullFan2000 (talk • contribs) .

for real they missed stuff —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.225.63.3 (talk • contribs) .

Can someone list examples of the Skiffle type bands and the other guitar driven chuck berry bands? thanks -- Patman2648

Somehow, The Kinks were omitted from the list. How is that possible? What Philistine created said list? Never fear, it has been corrected and all is well in the world.

God Save The Kinks!

Why is there a Beetles window on the damn article?? I am deleting that.

If you read the article it's pretty obvious why there is a 'Beetles' window. Yorkshiresky 10:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

erm, Bush, anybody? weren't they like the biggest rock act in the US for a while? not even mentioned here...

[edit] Numbers don't add up

Quoted from near the start of the page:

"The British Invasion began in 1964, and peaked in 1965. Two decades following the first invasion, the UK based punk movement....... As in 1963, the mainstream music market of 1975 had ....... the punk movement was a ...."

I'd hardly call from 1964/5 to 1975 two decades now. I've fixed this. I know the author meant to say that the "2nd Invasion" didn't occur till 2 decades on, however they don't mention it, instead they go on about punk and the 70's, whereas the 2nd invasion by name isn't mentioned for another 2 paragraphs! It just didn't make much sense.

But then again the author of the list left out the Kinks, tut tut. 81.158.160.129 19:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I recently posted on my blog about this subject and think I came up with a decent way of breaking up the various groupings. I think there were also a couple later acts like Queen and Def Leppard that made my list but did not show up here when later acts are discussed: http://ironcity.blogspot.com/2006/07/thank-you-great-britain-had-occasion.html

ya wat about thin lizzy

[edit] Article needs fixing

This talks about the main British invasion, rightly credited as being the mid-60's but the first artists we are told about are the Sex Pistols and The Clash? Will fix when I have the time, this thing needs a whole revamp. --Zoso Jade 13:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Cilla Black, a British Invader??? Did she even release a single in the US?--Zoso Jade 13:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yardbirds with Eric Clapton?

Clapton left the group before they achieved success in the United States; Jeff Beck was the lead guitarist. Eric Clapton would become famous in the U.S. as a member of Cream.

[edit] Dubious vagina comment?

"Some girls have stinky vaginas and should be avoided at all costs." I don't feel this is entirely accurate; some men seek out odious vaginas. Furthermore, "stinky" is somewhat of a weasel word. I think this entire comment is irrelevant and should be moved inside the entry on vaginas. 134.225.163.107 21:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

welcome to vandal patrol - which basically means that someone, or more than one, checks out every edit [at least] from someone who shows up in red. In fact, if you signed up then . . ......... Carptrash 05:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

This page has no citations at all. Does anyone have a book or an internet connection? andreasegde 06:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

This article has absolutely no sources, and contains large sections of what is quite possibly speculative nonsence. VFD or cleanup? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.42.252.254 (talk) 22:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Urgent work needed

The British Invasion as a phrase really applies just to the era 1964-1966. There were certainly further periods of British music incursion into the US - but only one other period generated significant media coverage as a "second" musical British Invasion - and that was the early 1980s.

There were significant successes by British acts in the US between 1966 and 1983 - but they were not conflated together and described as a further "British Invasion" by any credible media.

The punk and New Wave period (1977-1980) generated underground media coverage but not major mainstream coverage describing it as another British Invasion.

Chronology of British music success in USA (1964-1986)
1964-1966 - Beat groups - first British Invasion
1967-1971 - influx of progressive rock, blues and blues-rock artists.
1971-1976 - various pop and rock acts (Bowie/T. Rex/Sweet/Bay City Rollers etc)
1977-1980 - punk and new wave
1983-1986 - synth-pop/new romantics/MTV pop acts - US media called this a second British Invasion

We really need to change this article to reflect this.

If we wish to keep the British Invasion article accurate - there should then be a separate article about the impact of British music in the US 1966 onwards... Davidpatrick 06:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. What's more, the phrase British Invasion seems a little too America-centric. By all means discuss the "British Invasion" of the American charts on this page, but it should not be the only resource on mid-Sixties British music. All of the following, for example, should be moved to another page - called, for example - British beat boom:

"Like their transatlantic counterparts in the 1950s, British youth heard their future in the frantic beats and suggestive lyrics of American rock and roll. But initial attempts to replicate it failed. Lacking the indigenous basic ingredients of rock and roll rhythm and blues, and country music, enthusiasts could bring only crippling British decorum and diffidence. The only sign of life was in the early '50s skiffle craze, spearheaded by Scottish-born Lonnie Donegan. Skiffle groups (like The Beatles-launching Quarrymen) were mainly drummerless, acoustic guitar and banjo ensembles, similar to jug bands, who most often sang traditional American folk songs, frequently with more spirit than instrumental polish, although early British skiffle was played by highly skilled Trad jazz musicians.

"By 1962, encouraged by the anyone-can-play populism of skiffle and self-schooled in the music of Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Eddie Cochran, Buddy Holly, James Brown, and Muddy Waters, some British teens had a real feel for the rock-and-roll and American blues idioms. Blending that with such local traditions as dance hall, pop, and Celtic folk, they formulated original music they could claim, play, and sing with conviction. Young groups with electric guitars began performing and writing up-tempo melodic pop, fiery rock and roll, and Chicago-style electric blues. The rebellious tone and image of American rock and roll and blues musicians also deeply resonated with UK youth in the late 1950s, influencing all the British Invasion artists.

"Liverpool became the first hotbed of the so-called "beat boom." With The Beatles, other exuberant male quartets such as The Searchers, The Fourmost, and Gerry and the Pacemakers, plus the quintet Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas launched Merseybeat, so named for the estuary of the River Mersey that runs alongside Liverpool. The Beatles first reached the British record charts in late 1962 (shortly after The Tornados' "Telstar," an instrumental smash that sent word of what was in store by becoming the first British record by a group to top the American singles chart); the rest joined the hit parade in 1963. Not all acts prominent in Britain by the early 1960s necessarily managed to develop a profile in the US. Cliff Richard, who remains popular in Britain and active today, has only rarely had chart successes in America.

"Rock swept Britain. By 1964 Greater London could claim The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Who, The Kinks, The Pretty Things, Dusty Springfield, The Dave Clark Five, Peter and Gordon, Chad and Jeremy, and Manfred Mann. Manchester had The Hollies, Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders, Freddie and the Dreamers, Davy Jones of The Monkees, and Herman's Hermits; Newcastle had The Animals; and Birmingham had The Spencer Davis Group (featuring Steve Winwood) and The Moody Blues. Bands sprang up from Belfast, Them, with Van Morrison to St Albans, The Zombies, with more inventive artists arriving to keep the syles moving forward, including The Small Faces, The Move, The Creation, The Troggs, Donovan, and John's Children."

Very little of the above has anything to do with those bands' impact on the US charts; it should be moved to a less America-centric page. Malcolm Starkey 14:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote the original article back in September ([rewrite]), without blowing my own trumpet I think it's more wiki-neutral than the current version, which although nice is a little florid for Wikipedia. I think the problem is that there are two different articles fighting for supremacy a. Overview of British acts success in the USA and b.The 1960's beat boom covered by the first British Invasion artists Yorkshiresky 19:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)