Talk:Breathalyzer
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"Please note: This expansion is based on material on my website (http://www.alcoholinformation.org), to which I hold copyright. David Justin 20:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)"
- Moved from main page - Nrbelex (talk) 23:57, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Countering of POV
This article may have some POV issues. I don't see it as a huge problem because the facts are probably all true but no counter-arguments are made in Breathalyzers' favor that I can find throughout the entire article. Nrbelex (talk) 00:10, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
This article contradicts itself. It says that a subject falsely read a BAC level of .12 from painting a house, then goes on to say that the tests can't be fooled. Since when is Mythbusters an authority, especially considering the high number of errors they make?
- I added a couple of lines pointing out the deficiencies of the Mythbusters test, especially the fact that they only tested substances that had no effect upon or INCREASED the apparent BAC, and did not test any that in fact DECREASED it. Censorship by the Televison networks? Certainly such censorship has no place in Wikipedia! [eeman]
- Mythbuster's is used as a reference in a number of other articles. Obviously several different people have contributed to this article, one of whom has serious reservations about this technology and another who appears to be a fan of Mythbusters. Pulling all of this together into a cohesive, logical article is what Wikipedia is all about. The sum of all human knowledge... with a neutral POV. Your contribution to this effort would be appreciated. Why don't you take a stab at revising this article to remedy these problems? Gregmg 13:03, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
- I assume the article is implying that it is impossible to lower your (inferred) BAC level, however, some methyl containting substances can cause erroneously high readings. Incidently, in the UK it not an offence to fail the breath-test, however you must go to the police station for second test. Failing the second test is an offence. The second test can be blood, urine, or breath based. From what I've seen on TV, the station's breath test is a large machine, persumably it can correctly tell ethanol from compounds containing methyl groups. CS Miller 12:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
AFAIK the breathalyzer test does not detect the methyl but the hydroxy group of the alcohol,which is oxidised by acidic dichromate that turns green because it is reduced by the alcohol
[edit] Errant edit
An anonymous user made the following errant edit, placing his IP address in the article and the comment in the Edit summary:
- (→Common problems -Each one Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) degree of body temperature above normal will cause a substantial elevation (6.5% to 7%) in apparent BAC.) - 24.145.220.147 23:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I leave it as an exercise for others to verify this and work it into the article. Gregmg 02:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Flight of stairs
how could it make your count decrease 14%? did they dig up a dead guy with 200 times the legal amount?
[edit] General criticisms
Give me a break! First: No reputable scientfic research or study has ever PROVEN that an elevated body temperature will cause a breath alcohol reading to falsely exceed the blood alcohol. The Department of Public Safety in Texas has actually conducted a study refuting this assertion; showing body temperature NOT to be a factor. While it may be "theoretically" possible, no study has proven it to be and actual occurrence.
Second: I noticed the "experts" you cited at the end of your article were all OPPONENTS of breath alcohol testing. And, they were also "expert" witnesses who testify for the defense attorney community. I did not see any cites from Dr. A.W. Jones or Dr. Kurt Dubowski (two exceedingly qualified true experts in the field of breath alcohol testing). Lawrence Taylor is a trial attorney. What qualifications does he have in the SCIENTIIC FIELD OF SPECTROPHOTOMETRY? Answer: None at all.
Third: Perhaps you should reference the booklet written by Dr. Kurt Dubowski; The Technology of Breath Alcohol Analysis. DHHS Publication Number (ADM) 92-1728 Printed in 1992.
Fourth: The chance of some "interfering substance" appearing in the breath of a conscious human being is so rare as to render it nearly zero. In order to be present in a human breath, these "interferents" must be (1) water soluble, (2) present in a gaseous form at human body temperature (98.6 F or 37 C), (3) absorb IR light at the exact specific wavelengths (Datamasters utilize two frequencies, Intoxilyzers use from 3-5 frequencies, (4) the "interferent" must hang around in the breath for a significant time after ingestion/absorption/inhalation and (5) the claimed "interferent" must also absorb IR light in an exact proportion in each of the filtered frequencies.
Finally: IF breath alcohol testing technology is a bad as your "article" points it out to be, why haven't trial attorneys brought a Federal Class Action against the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (the Federal agency that tests and approves these instruments), National Patent Analytical Systems (who make the Datamaster), CMI, Inc (who makes the Intoxilyzer 5000) and each and every State Health Lab that approves these instruments? IF these instruments are so bad, where are the lawsuits to stop their use???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 153.91.80.188 (talk • contribs) .
REPLY
The US Constitution clearly states that gold and silver are to be the legal tender of the country. Where are the lawsuits challenging paper money? Sometimes you can't fight city hall even if you're right. However, according to press reports that I found, use of data from both the Intoxilyzer 5000 and the DataMaster has run into legal difficulty.Curious Student 20:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC) [1] [2]
- I'm a little puzzled. You seem to be addressing a particular editor, but your comments pertain to multiple edits by many editors. Also, who do you expect to take action on your concerns? If you are aware of errors in the article, then you should correct them. An impassioned plea on the talk page isn't going to accomplish anything. You obviously know quite a bit on this topic. Please be bold and make whatever changes are called for. Gregmg 20:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
NEEDS MORE CITATIONS AND REFERENCES ARE ALL FROM THE DEFENSE COMMUNITY
Breath testing is accurate when performed with quality scientific equipment that has been calibrated properly, and operated in accordance with the required procedure. Breath testing ALMOST ALWAYS underestimates the true BAC, and it is quite rare to see an evidentiary quality (non-PBT) breath testing instrument read higher than the true BAC. This entry needs a LOT more citations to substantiate some of the claims, especially where percentage values are reported. With an obvious negative spin, it flies in the face of the research. You should attend the Robert F. Borkenstein school on Alcohol and Highway Safety, given twice a year at Indiana University, Bloomington. The faculty for the course is a who's who of the research community. All the discussion under mouth alcohol should fairly be accompanied by the statement that a 15 minute cessation from drinking, and absent any vomiting, regurgitation etc. eliminates mouth alcohol as a contributing factor...this includes dentures and chewing gum and tobacco as well, not to mention the slope detection on all evidentiary units that differentiate between mouth alcohol and that from the lungs. How about adding some research from the following: AW Jones, Barry Logan and Kurt Dubowski.
[edit] Rename
I submit that this article should be renamed. It's always bad form for an article to be named after a specific product when it doesn't have to be. This article pertains to the general function of devices that estimate blood alcohol content based on a sample of air exhaled from the subject's lungs. It doesn't need to be called 'Breathalyzer'.
Any suggestions for a more enclycopedic name? We can always have 'Breathalyzer' redirect here. How about 'Breath-based blood alcohol content measurement'?
Alvis 08:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Excessive Intro
I added some structure to the article. I then removed the Excessive Intro alert. I believe I did this appropriately according to the guidelines. Lingamer8 17:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
