Talk:Brazil national football team

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Contents 1 The official nickname? 2 Best in the world 3 Seleção 4 Zagallo 5 Gomes? 6 Question 7 State flags 8 Images 9 Question 2 10 World Cup records 11 Tentative starting line-ups and formations 12 Balls and boots from World Cups won by Brazil 13 Record run in World Cup play? 14 Nicknames 15 2006 World Cup team 16 Request 17 Recent call-up 18 International caps and goals 19 Proper title 20 Notable former players 21 caps/goals for Julio Baptista 22 WP Football importance

[edit] The official nickname?

A Seleção (The Selected is the official nickname... Other nicknames is also used, bu the official is that...

OK, first of all, "Seleção" happens to be short for the official name of the team, but that does not make it an "official nickname" (if that's even possible, by the way -- nicknames are chosen by the fans, not by an executive decision). And yes, in Brazil if you happen to talk about "the Seleção" without further specification, it is understood that you are talking about the national football team (although the term is also used for other team sports, such as volleyball, basketball and such). But this does not a nickname make, the term is not particularly affectionate; it's just descriptive, like calling the Uruguayan team the "National Team" instead of "La Celeste Olímpica." Sportcasters have nicknamed the team the "Seleção Canarinho" a long time ago, and the name, although not the primary way to refer to the team, kinda stuck.MCBastos 22:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Best in the world

i don't think Brazil national football team is the best one in the world through it really has a large number of talented footballers.On the one hand,they lack unity.On the other hand,they are lacking of passion

That's an opinion, and this is an encyclopedia. On the other hand, the article doens't state "best" but "most successful", which happens to be true and can be ascertained by just looking to the statistics. SpiceMan 22:55, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

And "best" also fits because it has been ranked number 1 by the FIFA Ranking since its beggining, except for a couple of brief months when France defeated Brazil in the 1998 Cup, and even then remained in 2nd place. Brazil has been number one for almost 15 years now.LtDoc 21:07, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

But "best" is a peacock term, and thus should be avoided. SpiceMan 07:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Brazil is the best. Sorry europeans. --Mateusc 16:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

For the past Three and a half years, Brasil has been and will remain, THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

That's what they fought for during all of the qualifying rounds and throughout the entire World Cup itself.

As for the team not having any unity...That's just an opinion you have. I beg to differ. I don't think there are many teams on the planet that are more united than that of the Brasilian National Team.

I'm sure there are some teams in the world that have fewer problems then that of Brasil but, that comes with winning The World Cup!

Brasil has the most talent on one team that anyone could ask for. Sure that can present problems but, the bottom line is this... Brasil is THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD until another country takes that title away.

And even if that happens...There will never be a more talented team to grace the pitch than that of a team from BRASIL!

As for the team being the best in the world, that's just an opinion you have, I beg to differ.

Now, aside from parodying your bias, the word "best" is not of encyclopedic value because of it's subjectiveness. You might say it is ranked as the best, or that it has the best record so far, anything else is a judgement call. Who knows, maybe Honduras has been the best all along and was just unlucky for so many years. PHF 19:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seleção

'Seleção' means selection. So in this context, I think it means 'selected' in the sense of premier players, i.e. of special quality or value. At least in English, selection has the meaning of being the best of the best; the selected.

Yes, I can see why you reach this conclusion, however, since the term "Seleção" can be applied to any football team / squad in the other (specially the nationals), I think the translation to squad or team is more correct, because I believe it's saying that it's The (best) squad. Although, to be honest, I'd never even heard of the nickname "A Seleção" before reading it here in wikipedia, so maybe we should remove the reference completely (on the other hand, "Canarinho" is very famous and well known nickname).--Vertigo200 01:31, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Seleção is not a nickname is the name. Don't know other romance languages, but in Portuguese and Spanish the word used is "selection" (of players to represent the country in a given sport): pt "Seleção", es "Selección". e.g. pt:Seleção Brasileira de Futebol (Brazilian Football Selection, usually just Seleção Brasileira), es:Selección nacional de fútbol de Argentina (Argentina National Football Selection, usually Selección Argentina, the article's title on w:es was created to comply with standard spanish, ie: not Rioplatense Spanish). Both in Brazil and Argentina, when saying "A Seleção" (pt) or "La Selección" (es), you're referring to the national team, and unless there's a particular context about another sport, it sure means the football one. About canarinho, using the word in Portuguese is usually a reference to the late 60's early 70's national team, and sometimes refers to the national team altogether. Seems to be different in English. SpiceMan (会話) 04:26, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

You're probably right SpiceMan. Someone must have become confused and thought that "A Seleção" was the nickname when it's most likely not (I-ve certainly never heard it here in Brazil... and I really, Really like football). I vote we take away that nickname (if both of you agree, I'll remove it myself). But let we should Canarinho stay, because it can and is used to describe both the squads from 60-70's and the current squad (although I agree with you that's it much more common for the former than the latter).

sure. go ahead SpiceMan (会話) 18:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

That's fine. BTW, I took 'Seleção' from an article on the FIFA website detailing their qualification problems in past World Cups.

Hi. I am Brazilian. Every single match of the Brazilian team is referred to as "jogo da Seleção". The media, the players, the public, everyone refers to the team as "a Seleção". It has been so for at least the last three decades.

Indeed "Seleção" is the common term used to refer to the Brazilian National Football Team in Brazil. "Verdeamarela" is seldom used (let alone it's bad grammar - if anything, should be "Verde e Amarela", which means "Green and Yellow", and is always used after "Seleção" - I'm Brazilian too btw). What about "Scratch du Oro"? That's neither English nor Portuguese. It is not uncommon to find the Portuguese form "Escrete de Ouro" in the press, which translates to "Golden Scratch". girco 15:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I hope my addition is appreciated. Streamless 19:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC) Actually, it is "Little Canary Selection".

I don't know which nickname the world wide media uses, but we, brazilians, use that when mention the selection. Officialy (e eu nem sei escrever este raio) is "the Selected".

The word "Seleção" (Selection or Selected, as anglo speakers translate) is a general term for any National Team. We say "Seleção Inglesa" (England National Team), "Seleção Francesa" (France National Team) and on. So, I suggest that we remove the term "The Select" as a nickname for the Brazilian National Football team. --Mrzero 20:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we should put Seleção, just put a note next to it expaining it can mean any national team, ex. next to it put "Seleção (refers to any other national team as well)". Seleção is always used to describe them and even though it can refer to any national team it has become a nickname for Brazil. Abreuzinho 15:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zagallo

Hi, again. Sorry, I don't know how to start a new sub-topic. Just to comment that I removed the reference to Zagallo saying "You will have to swallow me". He indeed said that, but not in the Cup, but in 1997, after Brazil won the America Cup; see an article about the case here: http://www.gazetaesportiva.net/idolos/futebol/zagallo/desabafo.htm Regards, 201.8.187.27

You're absolutly correct, I'm terribly sorry for my mistake.--Vertigo200 21:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, maybe this Zagallo quote could be added to the Mário Zagallo, as it needs to be expanded. Carioca 22:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gomes?

Quem colocou o Gomes como goleiro? Parreira nunca falou nesse cara.

[edit] Question

According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/brazil/4773881.stm, Ronaldinho is playing as forward, not mid.

According to BBC, the English Liverpool would also defeat São Paulo FC in 2005. English press doesn't understand anything about football. They should only talk about and play rugby and let the five-times champion Brazil carry the football fame alone.

[edit] State flags

I think we should name the states as well as put the flags. I have no idea where the players come from just by looking or clicking at the flags.Borisblue 17:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's far too much information, hold the mouse over the flag and it will usually display the flag, or if you're that thirsty for more in depth stuff, just look at the player's article. You should be glad there's a flag there, I sometimes question if they should remove em all toghether. PHF 19:19, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Should I put one or two images to improve the article? I think just one is unsatisfactory. What do you think?

[edit] Question 2

Why doesn't Brazil do well at the Olympics?

It is because Olymícs has age limit (<23) to play and the most best brazilian players mature their football only with >24

[edit] World Cup records

Brazil didn't win 2006 World Cup (yet) so I removed it from the entries

[edit] Tentative starting line-ups and formations

There is a problem with the code that makes subsequent text appear peculiarly. I added <div style="clear: both"></div> and it looks okay, but it's not fixed properly.
 SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  03:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Balls and boots from World Cups won by Brazil

Image:Bolas chuteiras 5copas.jpg appears on the page, accompanied by the caption "Balls and boots from World Cups won by Brazil, Nike store, London". The balls and boots are not actually from those World Cup, rather they are styled to represent those those World Cup. The picture is therefore testament more to Nike's merchandising capabilities than the World Cups won by Brazil. That's why I think it should be removed. Anyone disagree?  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  01:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Your critic makes sence to me. I would favour its removal. --Abu Badali 03:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Record run in World Cup play?

If I've done the math correct, in the last four World Cups, the Brazilians have played 26 games. And of those, they've won 20, had 3 draws and only 3 losses. Is it safe to say that no other national team has ever come even remotely close to that run of winning?

[edit] Nicknames

Can we start to lower these nicknames down to 2 or 3 instead of having so many? What nicknames should we keep and which ones should go? Abreuzinho 15:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone have any good idea's on how we can make the info box smaller by some how altering the nickname(s) so they take up less space. AJSDA115 14:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 World Cup team

I wonder if it´s still relevant to maintain the players selected for the previous World Cup. It may be transferred to a new (?) article containing the teams selected for all World Cups. Coach Dunga has now called up a new squad, and many players are likely not to play any longer for Brazil, which should be reflected in this article. Lomibz 23:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• If caps include the match against Norway, how come Vagner Love shows none? He played a few minutes towards the end of the match.

[edit] Request

I would like to request a Confederations Cup Record for Brazil, can anyone help? 86.144.108.194 20:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent call-up

The list for recent call-up section is becoming too long now. I have 2 suggestion on this issue

• Delete the players who has retired from international football off the list
• Delete the players who hasn't been called since World Cup, as people could still access them in the 2006 FIFA World Cup Squad section
• Or we could retain the current format

Please give your suggestion, thanks. - Martin tamb 03:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] International caps and goals

I have try to correct all the international caps and goals. However, I find something interesting that Brazil often has non-official friendly match (such as vs Selection of Catalunya, vs Sevilla FC, vs Lucerne Selection, and more recently vs Al-Kuwait SC [1]). As these are unofficial matches, FIFA does not count the caps and goals from these matches. I have correct them all, but if anyone find a mistake please tell me and correct the stats, thanks. - Martin tamb 03:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Another think that I forgot to mention is that if anyone use www.sambafoot.com as a reference for international caps and goals, there are some mistakes on that website statistics. That website includes caps and goals from unofficial matches and also from matches played by Brazil Olympic Team. Since Brazil Olympic Team is technically Brazil U-23 and not managed by the current senior coach, these caps were not counted. One special case is the CONCACAF Gold Cup 2003, where the Brazil senior team were invited, but they send the Brazil U-23 instead. However these matches are recorded as senior team matches and therefore the caps and goals from Gold Cup 2003 are counted as senior team caps. - Martin tamb 03:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proper title

I or someone else can move the page so it has a proper title, namely Brazil National Football Team. Contact me if you wish for me to move it, free of charge ;). Eiyuu Kou 01:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The convention across all football articles of this type is to use Country national football team. The team are usually referred to simply as "Brazil", hence the full title is not a proper noun. Oldelpaso 09:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable former players

Can we lose the notable former players section? With five World Cup wins there are many notable Brazilian players, but without specific criteria for inclusion the list is inherently POV - the list is currently based on the personal opinion of the editors who added them. Perhaps a prose section would be better e.g. Pele is regarded by X and Y as the greatest player of all time... Ronaldo holds the record for World Cup goals etc. Oldelpaso 09:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] caps/goals for Julio Baptista

in this article and in Baptista's article, it is said he has 0 goals in 20 caps, information i believe is derived from the soccerbase website. however, in this website and in arsenal's official website - the writeup on Baptista - says that he has scored a few international goals! what's up with this inconsistency? Chensiyuan 02:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

meantime i shall resolve the ambiguity in arsenal.com's favour. if contrary evidence can be found (apart from soccerbase, which is really the only website i know which says 0 in 20), then let it be adduced. Chensiyuan 02:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I believe that arsenal.com has incorrect stats. I usually use the website sambafoot.com for Brazillian players' caps and goal. In this page it shows that Baptista has 29 games and 6 goals. However as I mention in previous talk topic, we need to subtract the caps from unofficial matches which are the matches from Brazil Olympic team on January 2003 (5 caps and 3 goals from matches against Norway, Czech, Egypt, Chile and Germany) and also the matches against clubs or selections team (3 caps and 3 goals from matches against Tokyo Verdy, Selection of Catalunya and FC Sevilla). This resulted in 21 caps with no goal. However, I'm pretty sure that the last time I updated his caps it was 20 caps and no goals, just as soccerbase says. But right now I honestly don't know which one is correct because it is difficult to find complete lineups from Brazil matches since 2001. I only start collecting the lineups since season 2003-2004 onwards and I can only confirm that the matches that they listed seems correct. Maybe arsenal.com ignores the caps from 2003 CONCACAF Gold Cup (July 2003) in which Baptista participate. In this competition Brazil chose to send their Olympic team due to their national team commitment on Copa America 2003. However , the matches were considered as senior team matches because this is a senior team tournament, the caps are counted for senior team. Well, honestly I still doesn't know whether to put 18/3 or 20/0 or 21/0 on his stats. It's just to complicated to find exact stats. Martin tamb 15:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I found another interesting source to add confusion here. This page is from FIFA and I assumes this is the correct one. However he listed 11 caps and 2 goals as of 29 June 2005. If I'm not wrong he only plays 2 more times after that under Parreira in 2005 and another 3 games under Dunga in 2006. This would put us in another strange results of 16 caps and 2 goals. Martin tamb 15:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

yes i have also seen the yahoo fifa page. it is strange indeed. it was also part of the reason why i thought arsenal.com could be correct. however, i did not cite the fifa page because it is evidently outdated. i would have thought the brazilian FA website would be helpful, but there is no english version so i won't understand its contents. Chensiyuan 15:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP Football importance

Changed it from "high" to "top". "Article is extremely notable, but has not achieved international notability, or is only notable within a particular continent"? Please. Macgreco 03:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)