Talk:Brandenburg Gate

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[edit] Idea for easy cleanup.

The German language version of this article is much better formatted, and more extensive. Why don't we use an online translator to translat the german version, and then clean up the translation by hand. It would be a whole lot easier then re-writing the whole thing. I don't want to proced untill sombody else agrees with me, though, I don't want to screw anytihng up. (And I just don't have time to do it now anyway.)

--Lophoole 02:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image Removed

The Gate ist not a triumphal arch, it was part of the former toll wall, and is not free standing. (toll houses)

[edit] Kennedy Speech

President Kennedy did not held his famous speech "Isch bihn ean ..." at the Brandenburg Gate. It was at the Town Holl of Schöneberg (at this time the seat of the Mayor of (West)Berlin.) However, he visited & looked at the Brandenburg Gate from a platform. See: http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/60/Berlin_Plaque_Kennedy.jpg/180px-Berlin_Plaque_Kennedy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner&h=240&w=180&sz=8&hl=de&start=9&tbnid=X6_BS544V4VUWM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=83&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkennedy%2Bberlin%2Bspeech%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dde%26lr%3Dlang_de%26sa%3DX

[edit] Gateway to Berlin?

I'm a bit confused. The Gate was originally part of the way into Berlin? Yet it was also right next to the Berlin Wall, which separated one half of Berlin from the other? How can that be? 207.245.124.66 15:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Maybe because the city was smaller, many modern cities have "gates" near the city center now.

yes, that's fully right. the old center of the town was on the "Museumsinsel" (see also: Cölln) --BLueFiSH ?! 19:11, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Removed

The Brandenburg Gate

I have removed this image from the article because I feel it is duplicated by the final image listed on the page, which is a much better shot. If you disagree, feel free to reinsert it. Feenix^{(talk • email)} 01:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I gave this image on first position long time ago, because somebody was complaining about historical images to be first(of course at that time it was the one with nazi symbols). I think there should be one modern color view as first, so reader can on first view see what is article about. (I am not sure everybody can recognize what is on the b&w 1871 image.) --Li-sung 11:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

My problem with the images in this article is there are too many making the page quite lengthy. Like most topics, there are many images that could be included from the web and user's own collections. However they cannot all possibly be incorporated and we should therefore choose the best. I propose we leave this for a week and then take action depending on what the majority of replies, if any, say within this talk page. Feenix^{(talk • email)} 13:34, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

1

2

3

In this comparation I see as the best picture 3, that shows whole gate in full daily light. --Li-sung 13:49, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I see your point there. Can I suggest we add {{commons|Category:Brandenburg Gate}} since this will link to all Wikimedia Commons content related to this article and remove the need to include every image. This will of course mean updating the tags on applicable content on Wikimedia Commons. Feenix^{(talk • email)} 10:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I have swapped the image I previously removed with the number 2 above. Feenix^{(talk • email)} 18:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I am inclined to think this is a better photo than the one curently at the head of the article, since it gives a better idea of both the scale and the details of the Gate. I also think the angled view is aesthetically better. But I leave this judgment to other editors. Adam 08:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC) I agree --Lophoole 02:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Leaving the free world

It says in the article:

However, in 1961, the gate was closed when the Berlin Wall was built. Americans placed large warning signs at their side of the gate, reading in English, Russian, French and German: "End of the Free World. You are leaving the American Zone."

The second sentence is obviously wrong for the following reasons, and I'm deleting it.

• First error: the Brandenburg Gate was on the boundary between the British and Soviet zones. The American zone in that area only went as far north as Potsdamer Platz. So the Americans would not have placed a sign and if there was one it would not refer to the American zone.

• Second error: "You are leaving the (name) zone" signs only make sense at points where it is possible to leave the zone. Once the Wall was established, the Brandenburg Gate was not a crossing point — as the article mentions, it was closed. Of course, it was a crossing point before the Wall was built.

• Possible third error: The famous sign at Checkpoint Charlie did not use the term "Free World", only the "American sector". See the replica here. I assume all signs at zone boundaries would have used a uniform wording, but I don't know. I also don't know whether the British erected such signs at the boundaries of their zones and, if so, whether they were uniform with the American ones.

The reason I post this here at all is because it seems just possible to me that a sign might have been erected after the Wall went up as a political statement rather than a practical notice, and if so, that it might have been worded differently. So maybe the sentence is a distortion of that, and should be corrected rather than deleted. However, I would have thought that if such a sign existed, I would have seen pictures of it. So I'm guessing that the contributor was simply confused, and was misremembering the Checkpoint Charlie sign. (I never went to Berlin myself until after the Wall came down.)

As to the location of the zones and Wall crossing points, they are shown here; and the Potsdamer Platz article confirms that it is the place where the American zone met the other two.

207.176.159.90 01:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goddess of...?

The article says that the quadriga currently contains the Goddess of Peace. It also mentions that in 1814, the quadriga depicted the Goddess of Victory. Was there a transition from one to the other that is not mentioned, or is the decription inconsistent? I have added a cleanup-confusing template. -postglock 03:23, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

-- Yes there was a transition. If i recall correctly they made it into a victory goddess after they had gotten it back from Paris(1814) and also added some preussian symbols