Talk:Boy band
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I have NEVER heard anyone refer to the Beatles or Beach Boys as boy bands. The songwriters from these groups wrote brilliant music, both bands played their instruments and did many live gigs, and got together by themselves, no by someone like Maurice Starr. These bands should be taken out of the article. To call either of them a boy band is to misunderstand the meaning of the term.
Typically, each member of the group will have some distinguishing feature and be portrayed as having a particular personality stereotype - such as "the baby", "the bad boy", "the nice boy", but this device is not limited to boy bands.
I would argue that the specific practice (picking members and marketing them to a personality sterotype so as to attract the broadest possible audience of preteen girls) *is*, whilst maybe not limited to boy bands, is far more identifiably used with these groups (and girl bands) than with any other type of pop groups. Who is the bad boy in, say Radiohead? --Robert Merkel
- Typically, one of the members of the group will come out as gay in the closing chapters of the band's history.
I was guilty of making the same snide remarks in the original article - I know sniping at boy bands is fun and an easy target, but it's not NPOV. --Robert Merkel
By the way, has anybody got a link for Just 5, the polish boy band mentioned in the main article? It sparked my curiosity now :) --Robert Merkel
[edit] Why is Pop Metal linked at the bottom of the page?
Glam Metal is not Pop Metal as these bands are not pop stars. Why does this pop metal term exist? Maybe you should rename it Hair metal as that is very pop influenced. Glam Metal is not pop music though!
[edit] Rammstein
Remove Rammstein! They are not a boy band! Boy bands don't play their own instruments - well, they don't play them well.
- Apparently A1 does. But that's beside point, since Rammstein also is a rock band, of the kind which frequently screams its lyrics. By definition, a boy band sings pop, dance and R&B music, or frequently a varying mixture of the three, as with *NSYNC. You'll be happy to know, dear anonymouse, that it's since been removed (by an editor before myself).Runa27 22:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hanson is not a boy band
Hanson do not meet any reasonable definition of a boy band, including the one given in the intro of this article. They are not "manufactured". They are skilled musicians and play musical instruments, which boy bands typically don't even bother to pretend. They also don't do any of the elaborately choreographed dancing that is typical of boy bands. Mkweise 19:04, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)
You obviously have a very misinformed understanding of what is a boyband.
1. A boyband in the music industry is a group of singers of one sex, numbering usually between 2 and 6 in number put together for the purposes of being promoted as a vocal group. They may be put together at the start of their recording deal (eg. Boyzone) or already exist as a musical group prior to a recording deal (eg, Westlife).
2. The idea that they are not skilled musicians is largely an urban myth. The membership of That That involved some lads who had been to stage school. The lead singer is an accomplished composer, who composed for the band and who is now a prolific composer for other singers over a wide variety of musical genres. Another member, Robby Williams, had as a kid starred in the West End in the musical Oliver and now has an internationally successful musical career doing everything from rock to swing; he has composed some of his own music. Westlife had had a musical career with largely the same membership under a different name. Many of its members play more than one instrument. Boyzone, which was a totally manufactured band, consisted of five members; four have composed music, three had musical careers of their own subsequent to the band's career. One is now an actor. The lead singer has an international musical career and has appeared on stage with a famous tenor, another is the critically acclaimed star of a production currently on in the West End. One True Voice (and the rival Girls Aloud) were formed as part of a live show and all the members without exception were highly accomplished singers and musicians. OTV broke up recently because they felt they weren't being allowed to show their actual ability to full effect, a complaint made by many boybands, from the Monkees to 5ive to Westlife and OTT.
The idea that boybands do not consist of skilled musicans is bullshit. Not all boybands consist of an entire membership of skilled musicians (but at least three of a band of five must be, to cover eventualities where one or more may leave, or may due to illness be unavailable, alternative singers capable of singing the lead being built in as standbys), but many are entirely made of singers. I had the pleasure as a freelance journalist of interviewing two of the bands on the list. One group of five, whom I was interviewing in the RTÉ canteen before they appeared on a TV show, in response to a joke about whether they really could sing, sang in perfect five part harmony a famous Irish folksong. (My old music teacher in school must have dreamt of having a choir who could sing the particular song, one of the most difficult of the famed late 18th century/early 19th century Moore's Melodies, note and intonation perfect.)
In reality most members of most boybands do play at least one instrument. However they are promoted as a vocal group, which means that except on rare occasions their contract requires them to appear exclusively as vocalists. The nature of their ability is such that on a number of occasions, bands such as Westlife and OTT have annoyed TV shows by asking to be allowed to sing live; TV shows don't like that because it complicates the 'package', requiring sound checks, live feed, accurate balance of mike levels. Lipsincing is much easier for a show because all they have to do is play a pre-balanced track rather than do the balancing themselves. Many boybands for that reason hate appearances where they have to lipsinc because it creates the impression you have that they can't actually sing when they can and want to be able to show they can.
Boybands are a marketing commodity but the idea that five nobodies of limited or non-existent talent are picked and used as a 'front' is rubbish. That did occasionally happen at the start of the boyband craze but there are three very clear reasons why record companies avoid such 'creations'. 1 - as happened with two less than skilled members of Boyzone, one of the early bands, the company and the good singers resent paying large sums of money to people who are just 'hangers-on', 2 - for all the money earned, the 'hangers on' usually are well known in the music industry and viewed as the proverbial turds of the industry; as a result they often feel so humiliated that they quit, causing the band to prematurely disintergrate, 3 - money conscious companies don't like paying on the double, millions to miming front men and then large sums to session singers everytime they need a note from the band, so they prefer band members who can do the music too, and 4 - boybands have a very limited shelf-life. No company wants to spend the millions involved in promoting a band if all they can get out of them is a three or four year career. Choosing a full compliment of singers opens the prospect that subsequent to the band, one, two, three, if they are lucky, all five members will then be capable of having solo careers for the record company, so ensuring a return for their investment for a decade or more from each artist, rather than the three or four years.
The impression you seem to have about boybands is largely urban myth, and also has developed due to professional jealousy within the industry, because they tap into a mass market that is beyond the reach of most bands, who in response dismiss boybands as 'phoney' and 'manufactured' out of professional jealousy. But in fact the boyband phenomenon is in fact one of the oldest forms of music. Exclusively choral groups have existed for centuries, many in the middle ages were celebrities, many choral groups (eg, gospel choirs) use choreography and dance, etc. It is simply a reinvented form of vocal-based music, with the background music provided by another group of people. (BTW I have never seen Pavorotti play an instrument, but I have seen him sing alongside people who began their musical careers in boybands.) FearÉIREANN 00:13, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Copyedit
"A boy band (American English) or boyband (British English) is a style of somewhat to mostly prefabricated pop group featuring about between three and six young male singer/dancers, but normally five. " If there were no such things as boy-bands, I could nominate this article for the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest Joestynes 10:13, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Band Additions Should Be Discussed First
I think that additions of new bands should always be discussed on this page before being added to the real one. Many people are complaining about various bands that they feel are not boybands being added the the page. I think that in general, it is definately NOT a boyband if: each member plays an instrument (except for the lead vocalist), and they have a sort of dark, punk/emo image.
[edit] Questionable Choices
2 Live Crew and Wu-Tang Clan are "boy bands?" Yes, both are comprised entirely of young men with (possibly) fabricated personalities but they certainly weren't aiming for the teenage girl demographic and both made frequent use of profane/extreme lyrics. I fail to see how they fit in with the other bands on this list. --feitclub 22:11, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Explain
What does "somewhat to mostly prefabricated pop group" mean? What does "prefabricated" mean here and "somewhat to mostly"? Mandel 07:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
- Does anyone find the photo of Garvis (looking in their 40s) look anything like a typical boy band with teenage appeal? Mandel 09:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I've just deleted Maroon 5 from the list, since ther are NOT a boyband; They are a group that met and formed during high school. Boyband members usually meet during auditions made by record producers.
[edit] another non-boyband
Boyz 2 men are more of a street corner group: doowop, than boy band. I took them off the list at the end.
[edit] reply
A lot of confusion seems to have arisen between those acts which are marketed to tweens and those who are vocal harmony and urban acts, so a separate section has been given to these mostly American acts
[edit] Rammstein??!
It would seem some person added Rmmstein on to this list, possibly as a joke or an attempt at vandalism...I see no possible correlation between them and the concept of a boyband, other than the fact that they comprise of a bunch of males....I would remove them myself..but I'm fairly certain I'd screw up and delete the article at the same time!..
[edit] soulDecision Isn't a Boy Band Either
soulDecision doesn't fit your term of boy band either. They were a trio who had been writing songs and working their butts off trying to make it in the industry since 1998 - if not earlier. They all play instruments, they didn't dance and they weren't manufactured. It's really not their fault that the record label "brought them out" when all the pop boy groups were getting big.
I agree, Hanson isn't a boy band - and neither is BBMak which is also listed. If someone is going to argue the point, then I have to ask - why isn't Savage Garden or even the BeeGees on the list? I'd classify them in the same grouping as soulDecision, Hanson and BBMak.
Just noticing Simple Plan is on there - totally not a boy band. If they were then you'd have to add Blink182 and Green Day to the list. ;) By the way, they're Canadian not American.
[edit] What about the Beatles?
Do the Beatles not count as a boy band? It seems to me they were the blueprint for all that have followed to this day.
Reply
No, The Beatles were not a boy band. Reasons:
1) They formed the band on their own. They were not assembled, as most (all?) boy bands are.
2) They wrote their own songs.
3) They wrote great songs. And that's an understatement.
4) The played instruments on stage, as opposed to choreographed dance moves.
5) Hundreds (thousands?) of artists - from Kurt Cobain to Elliot Smith - list them as huge influences.
6) They're the most covered band in history. Yesterday alone is the single most covered song.
7) The Beatles helped lead a generation through the turmoil of the 60s, from the spiritual to the political.
--Millifoo 17:33, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
um, what do those things have anything to do with being a boy band? They were not part of the phenomenon, that's all you had to say. To say that by definition, something can't be 5 or 6 or 7 has zero factual backing, and is highly opinionated Blueaster 21:41, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think any serious musician or music fan would even entertain the falsity that the Beatles were a "Boy Band". Yes, they were all guys, and yes, they all sang. But they were all accomplished musicians who had been playing in bars and clubs for years. No prefab, no dancing, no pretty boys just because they were pretty and could dance and sing. Anyone who thinks the Beatles were a boy band needs to go back and read the definition at the beginning of the article.
[edit] Other "objectionable" entries
-Are Evan and Jaron a boy band? I think they play instruments (in at least one of their videos, they are playing guitars), so wouldn't that automatically make them not part of the genre? I think they're more in the John Mayer/Joss Stone "coffeehouse" genre
-I don't think the St. Lunatics would qualify either. They don't have teenage girls falling all over them like the rest of the groups, not to mention that they aren't pop/R&B. --Ecurran 21:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] POV
Who had the bright idea of segregating the list? I've merged all the entries (except the mixed gender acts) because the so-called seperations were highly POV (both in terms of scope -- UK scope -- and in tone). Someone just needs to alphabetize the list. Also, I removed any R&B groups who weren't specifically packaged in the Tiger Beat style from the list (for example, The Jackson 5 should be here, but K-Ci and JoJo or The Temptations should not be. --FuriousFreddy 22:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
"They can evolve out of church choral or Gospel music groups, but are often put together by managers or producers who audition the groups for appearance, dancing, and singing ability (often in that order), and often seem to be prefabricated."
__________________ the parenthetical statement is funny, but not based on fact and is unencyclopedic. I'm removing itBlueaster 21:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] citing sources
although we're all probably familiar with some of the history and facts that have to do with this subject, and it's not a very written about thing, i'm pretty sure that we could improve the quality of this article if we could find authoritative sources on this subject. I'm sure VH1 has covered everything about boy bands in multiple programs. Or maybe there's something on mtv's or vh1's site, or some magazine article or something. some stuff on this page seems purely original research, based on personal conclusions or opinions. this is especially true for the Groups commonly referred to as boy bands section. People are adding and taking off bands to the list based on their own opinions. We could easilly fix this problem with a simple plan:
Find 2 references by a reviewer, a magazine, or something and place links next to each band listed to support their placement in there. Blueaster 21:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
