User talk:Blueshirts

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[edit] Chinese military history task force (part 2 since you archived your talk)

Hey there! The Chinese military history task force has been created! Please help us expand Wikipedia's coverage of the military history of China. Feel free to list you name here, and invite your friends too! ;) -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 01:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice comment. I like this name a lot. You have a nice name too. Blue shirts, I am assuming refers to the secret police group under the Kuomintang ROC government which was controlled by Chiang Ching-kuo. -Chiang Kai-shek

[edit] Edit summaries

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

--digital_me(Talk)(Contribs) 23:37, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Apologies. I misinterpreted your intentions. I removed my comment. Scienceman123 23:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue III - May 2006

The May 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. —ERcheck @ 11:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Shanghai1937IJA armored cars.jpg

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[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Shanghai1937city_bombed_out.jpg

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[edit] WarWiki

(Sorry if this seems like spamming.) Hey, if you like Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history then you might like war.wikia.com where we need people (we have only 16 users) to write anything about war--fictional (i.e. Star Wars, LOTR) or real (i.e. WWII, American Civil War). Thank you! the_ed17 13:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: map

Hi there. I use Photoshop, which is quite an investment =| I haven't used it myself, but the free GIMP has always seemed to be the most popular alternative. Hope that helps, --Loopy e 06:51, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request help

hi BlueShirts, You share pretty much the same values as I do when talking about the Repbublic of China. Therefore, I hope you will agree and help me in the ongoing dispute about naming the ROC portal, ROC, not "Taiwan." You can see the links on my talk page, which lead to other mediation/talk pages. Please respond. Thank you. -Chiang Kai-shek 00:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

When I think about a portal, I think its usually named by country and it contains information and links to other related articles. How is it geographic? They claim to want to put information about Taiwan exclusively, but that can be done under the name Portal:Republic of China. After all, Taiwan makes up most of the free territory of the ROC. We don't have to include Mongolia, Mainland China, etc. Some brief info can be given about the Chinese Civil War and the ROC/PRC. I think they are promoting a pan-green political agenda with regards to naming, color, etc. -Chiang Kai-shek 00:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portals

Hi BlueShirts, I noticed when looking at Chiang Kai-shek's talk page that you were interested in the idea of a ROC portal, but didn't really know a lot about portals. If you are interested in portals (regardless of the out of Taiwan/ROC portal debate) you can find out everything you need here. I hope that you find this useful. Yours, The Halo (talk) 01:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan "state" vs "country"

Hi, please join the discussion on Talk:Taiwan regarding what term we should use. Simply changing it back and forth will not get us anywhere. Ideogram 02:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. Aish Warya was apparently a sockpuppet account created for vandalism. Ideogram 06:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no discussion on whether Taiwan is a state or a country. It is a province of the Republic of China. (province=state). -Chiang Kai-shek 00:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Taiwan

Hi BlueShirts,

Finally, another person who understands the intension of the portal being about the island of Taiwan as a geographic entry. I used to support Portal:Republic of China because the China portal is Portal:Republic of China so I thought it should've been a "nation/state" portal as well. But after I read the reason for the portal name (given by User:Captain0) I understood that it's geographic, so it covers a wide scope of topics concerning Taiwan island. Whereas an ROC portal limits the scope of topics down to ROC on Taiwan (Therefore, cannot mention colonial history by Dutch, Japan, Ming, Qing) or about aborigines because it raises "anti-ROC" or "pro-independence" problems. But the fact is these topics widen our understanding about the history of Taiwan.

Your suggestion about making the Portal:Republic of China into a portal about the politics and history of the ROC is a good idea, so long as it doesn't claim to be Taiwan but "China (inc. Taiwan)" since 1911 with the map of China (mainland territories shaded; ROC jurisdiction highlighted). That would be more ROC-centric and can mention a wide range of topics such as Chinese Civil War, retrocession of Taiwan to ROC from Japan, military campaigns, etc. Then it can be linked to Portal:Taiwan and the Taiwan portal can be linked to "Republic of China" and "People's Republic of China" as the history. Then I suggest we ask that Portal:China be ressurected as being about China (geography) which will link to both PRC and ROC portals (politics) that should be the best compromise to the portal name dispute. A Portal China can mention history about the dynasties, the question about Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia, etc because that is the history of China, not the history of PRC. — Nrtm81 09:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello BlueShirts. This is just a note to inform say that there is a mediation process currently ongoing at Portal talk:Taiwan which you might be interested in as you have commented on this issue before. However, do not feel pressured to comment here as the mediation process is between Nrtm81 and Chiang Kai-shek. If you don't want to get involved in the issue, you don't have to. On the flip side of that, if you feel that you have something helpful to add, please do! We would aprichiate any comment that you have on the matter, and would like it if you could help us resolve the issue.
Yours, The Halo (talk) 11:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you very much, I thought so too. It's just too bad that the mediation broke down and has gone to ArbCom. Still, thank you very much for your comments all the same. The Halo (talk) 19:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please see the arbitration page for further information on my view. I'm happy to have a Taiwan exclusive portal, but it just can't be under the name "Taiwan" because it is way too confusing and raises way too many eyebrows. I'm not from Mainland China and I am not a Communist Chinese conspirator. I am a supporter of the Republic of China and I love Taiwan as well. Both can be accomplished at the same time. -Chiang Kai-shek 00:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm actually from Taiwan, and I'm not a waishengren. I'm a benshengren. I'm born in Taiwan and proud of it. But I love both the Republic of China and Taiwan. I think the status quo is the way too go personally. Frankly, I'm not happy with the Mainlander Chinese and the Communist Party of China. -Chiang Kai-shek 01:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, can you help convince Chiang Kai-shek to agree to "Portal:Taiwan (island)"? It seems like such a small thing, they are now fighting over two characters! Ideogram 08:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Maps

Do you mean myself personally? It's not too sophisticated; I just use GIMP and draw in the arrows by combining a path trace with pencilled-in arrowheads.

If you mean what a good map maker would use, you'd probably have to ask someone who actually knows how to draw! ;-) Kirill Lokshin 21:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dunno; how wide are you making them? I used the "stroke path" command with a width of 3px and managed to get halfway decent results. Kirill Lokshin 05:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not really sure. I do know that, for almost all maps, redrawing it by hand avoids any sort of copyright issues; but I'm not sure how tracing would affect it. I would assume that, if the tracing was close enough to the original, it would count as "reproduction" and become a derivative work of the original map, copyright-wise; but it's probably a question you should ask on Wikipedia:Copyrights or some similar page if you want a more certain answer. Kirill Lokshin 05:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, yes; the backgrounds are public domain images (really old maps are great for this sort of thing) and the lines are drawn in by hand (for obviousl reasons—I couldn't trace any existing maps onto the background images I had). I don't know if actually tracing the lines from somewhere would change the situation or not, though. Kirill Lokshin 05:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Free Area of the Republic of China

Hey BlueShirts, if you don't mind, can you create a portal theme for the Portal:Free Area of the Republic of China. I have decided that it would be better to have that portal than the Portal:Taiwan. The Free Area is a politically neutral term and it covers all of the territory in the current ROC's jurisdiction. If you could contribute, please do so. Also, we should work on Portal:Republic of China as well. -Chiang Kai-shek 01:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to have Portal:ROC cover everything about the ROC from Mainland and all the history of Taiwan. However, that would create problems, because people like Nrtm81 don't agree. They want Portal:Taiwan. So then we should use Portal:ROC for all history of ROC from Mainland to Taiwan, but for Taiwan history specifically, we should use Portal:Free Area of the Republic of China. -Chiang Kai-shek 02:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Portal:ROC is supposed to be a separate new portal only about the ROC from its time on the Mainland and to present. On the other hand, Portal:Free Area of the Republic of China is supposed to be the replacement for Portal:Taiwan. -Chiang Kai-shek 11:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV - June 2006

The June 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.   — ERcheck (talk) @ 02:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Shanghai1937IJA urban.jpg

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[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - July 2006

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[edit] Battle of Wuhan

I just extensively expanded the Battle of Wuhan article.. Please check it out :)!

--AQu01rius 17:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Shanghai1937 images

Hi, BlueShirts. I've noticed that these pictures you uploaded have a tag which is probably fair as to copyright, but absolutely no source information. Can you please list the sources ASAP so as to ensure there aren't any fair usage problems? Thanks, John Smith's 22:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Blue, if you don't give me some sort of response I'll have to tag them. I know that you are editing wikipedia - what's the problem? John Smith's 18:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
This doesn't have anything to do with the Nanjing issue. It's to do with improperly sourced/evidenced pictures. You can't just say "they are fair use", you need to specify the source. Please go through the pictures and actually list the photobooks you got them from - author, title, page number, etc. Then they'll be fine.
Pictures get deleted all the time because they don't have proper copyright and source info. That is wikipedia policy. John Smith's 11:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Blue, why do you keep ignoring me/refusing to state the specific sources for these pictures? Can't you even state you will make it a priority to list appropriate sources? Is it too much to ask from you? John Smith's 11:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] What

I THINK THIS ARTICLE Republic of China NEED MORE AND MORE PICTURES , SEE People's Republic of China ANDSouth Korea ANDJapan ANDSingapore , THESE ARTICLE HAVE A LOT OF PICTURES ,SHOULDN SOMEBODY TO ADD MORE PICTURES FOR IT?

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[edit] RE:User box

Of course not. -- Миборовский 06:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006

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[edit] Stegosaurus

Hi BlueShirts!

I'm planning to send Stegosaurus to Featured Article candidacy. The article failed its first nomination, but user:Casliber and I have been hard at work fixing stuff. As you're listed as a member of Wikipedia: WikiProject Dinosaurs, I figured I'd drop you a line and see if there was anything you thought should be added/removed/cited on the article before it is sent to FAC. We definitely want it to pass! :)

(Feel free to make any edits on the article itself, comment on the talk page, or leave a note on my talk page). Thanks for your time, Firsfron of Ronchester 19:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi BlueShirts!
I've followed your advice and added the diet section. I don't know why no one thought of that until now, so I'm glad I asked for a few second opinions, such as yours. I am trying to closely follow the earlier dinosaur Featured Articles in terms of layout and information, as you noted. Anyway, thanks again for your helpful suggestions. :) Happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 04:53, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Template:Warlord era

Hi,

I am currently exploring the idea of splitting this template into four different parts. I feel that it is simply too large in its present state. It takes up the entire screen on my computer. I have created four mockups of my idea, which can be viewed by going to User:Danaman5/Workshop and clicking on the four "Warlord" links. As someone who has edited this template before, I wanted to get your opinion before moving forward. You can leave a message on my user talk page with any comments.

Thanks, --Danaman5 01:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some suggestion page for u to edit

Sino-Indian_War McMahon_Line Aksai_Chin Arunachal_Pradesh Tawang_District

p/s: The may be u can passed the link to ur frens that interested to edit those article.Sawadeekrap 09:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Wang Chien-ming

Apparently this Yankee guy keeps disputing the fact that Chien-ming was born in Tainan City, Taiwan, Republic of China. He keeps insisting that Taiwan by itself is an independent sovereign nation. That is not true. I keep pointing him to reliable sources such as the ROC government websites and several Wikipedia articles. But he just doesn't bother to read it. He keep saying MLB says just Taiwan. Well of course, it would, since the USA doesn't maintain diplomatic relations with the Republic of China. Well, duh, but he just doesn't get it. Can you help us resolve this dispute? Thank you -Nationalist 08:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Nationalist (talk • contribs) is posting strawman arguments and outright lies. I've neither said nor implied that Taiwan is a sovereign nation, nor do I really care. I'm asking for a reliable source that says Wang was born in the Republic of China. Every single reliable source I've found says Taiwan. The threshold for inclusion of information into Wikipedia is verifiability - not truth. Please review WP:VERIFY. All I'm asking for is a reliable source that says Wang was born any place other than Taiwan. Nationalist seems unable to comply with this very simple request or unwilling for personal reasons that may include a non NPOV. He/she has done nothing other than to post original research, links to sites that don't even mention Wang, or sources links to other articles on Wikipedia. Again and I'll repeat this so we're clear, as per Wikipedia policy, The threshold for inclusion of information into Wikipedia is verifiability - not truth. I would suggest an RFC with further posts on the article talk page, rather than canvassing and disputes on numerous users talk pages. Yankees76 16:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Being Uncivil

Regarding this edit.[1] calling other Wikipedia editors "fucking dumbasses". Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Yankees76 00:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding this edit calling others troll: Please stop. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Thank you. Vic226(chat) 04:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] This is out of control

We need to reign in these guys..I am looking for a compromise and solution, but these guys are becoming more radical by the second. For example, for Guantian, Tainan, Jerry made Chen Shui-bian "President of Taiwan" instead of "President of the Republic of China." He also called the Presidential Building Taiwan, instead of ROC Presidential Building. And his fellow supporters are adding to this. What should we do? What is your email? -Nationalist 02:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I am still looking for a compromise, but no luck. Jerry is out to delete all instances of Republic of China or ROC and to make sure everything says Taiwan Taiwan and Taiwan. I have no problem having Taiwan, ROC or Taiwan, Republic of China. The Taiwan existing there clarifies everything. But why does he have to delete ROC or Republic of China? Clearly, I think he is pushing a POV. Examples are the above edit to Guantian and several others. Several articles were fine before he started vandalizing it. For example for an article the field said Country: Republic of China. he purposely changed it to Taiwan (ROC). But it was already clear that this was Taiwan since underneath that field said Birthplace: Kaoshuing, Taiwan. I would like to seek mediation and opinions, can you refer anyone here and get in contact with Jiang? -Nationalist 00:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
You guys were bickering and you didn't invite me... =( Jumping cheese Cont@ct 17:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MILHIST Coordinator Elections

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[edit] Hey!

Thanxs for the message. That a look at Talk:Taiwan and Talk:Republic of China and all the archives for the thousands of comments on naming convention. Basically everyone accused each other of POV and eventually the fights died down, only to be continuously restarted...so there's really no consensus about the naming. However, whenever naming becomes an issue, it's best to appeal to both sides of the political spectrum, such as "Republic of China (Taiwan)" instead of "Republic of China" or "Taiwan". That usually causes the least controversy.
I have a vague memory of coming across an actual naming convention discussion on some official Wikipedia page, but I became active in Wikipedia after it had ended. I can't find it...so sorry. =) Jumping cheese Cont@ct 18:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World War 2

Excuse me but I am having great difficulty understanding your edit to World War 2, even more your summary “no”. Perhaps you should clarify how Chiang Kaishek was leader of the Communist forces in China, all 1.3 million, and why, if so, both sides continued to fight each other during the height of the conflict!

I do not see how Mao Zedong cannot be classified as an important leader in World War 2. The article on the 2nd Sino Japanese War list the Chinese Communists as a separate faction, and this is shown in the “commanders” section for Mao Zedong. Mao Zedong and his fellow communists even considered themselves a separate nation during the war as the Soviet (later People’s) republic of China, and the Kuomintang Republic of China, and not one unified country.

Judging by your site you probably know a lot more Chinese history than me, and if there is a good reason why Mao Zedong cannot be called this, please specify this. Matt. P 17:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry, I realised my mistake and it has been rectified.Matt. P 17:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military History elections

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[edit] Passing by

Hi, i am HappyApple from Wikiproject Chemistry, i have read to your user's page and it seems when you speak about yourself you claim work in laboratory or doing research. Are you interested in joining our project?, We have many tasks to do, and i feel you can help us in the maintenance =) . By the way i also read to your oppinions about the P.R.C and i agree with you, i dont like the commies also, by the way, are you chinese? I have this impression, well, take care and happy new year.--HappyApple 09:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RFC/discussion of article World War II

Hello, Blueshirts. As a prominent contributor to World War II, you may want to be aware that a request for comments has been filed about it. The RFC can be found by the article's name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found on Talk:World War II, in case you wish to participate. Thank you for your contributions. -- Krellis 01:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall

Thanks for correcting the blurb to the correct term "desinicization". I just BSed the translation. Kelvinc 09:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tears of the Black Tiger

Hi! I've responded to your question on Talk:Tears of the Black Tiger. Have you seen the film? — WiseKwai 14:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People's Republic of China

Hi. When editing an article under a content dispute/edit war, please do not mark controversial edits minor, and please do leave an edit summary explaining the reason for your edit. Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 17:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - February 2007

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[edit] Shanghai Battle with a Nanjing Baby

Hey dude. I re-edited my edit to your edit. Or something. I deleted the Nanjing baby from the Battle of Shanghai article because, well, it is a Nanjing baby, not a Shanghai baby. Unless you've got information saying otherwise, I think it should stay out. I'm not randomly editing stuff for my amusement or to put forward a specific interpretation. You didn't mention in the comments why you put it back in, though. I've started a conversation on the page about it.

--Bakarocket 11:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World War II Mediation Case

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/World War II, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible. —Krellis (Talk) 21:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you think? Haber 13:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Alright. Haber 23:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] psst - Taiwanese American

Hey, from my "conversations" with Certified.Gangsta in the past, I gathered that he's one quarter Taiwanese, apparently. He doesn't think there are Chinese people in Taiwan. --Sumple (Talk) 08:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

A bit from column A, and a bit from column B? I think it's a combination of (1) a very warped understanding of Taiwan and (perhaps) his own identity, and (2) a steadfast refusal to look at evidence. --Sumple (Talk) 03:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second Sino-Japanese War page

Chinese Communists allowed the Nationalist forces to do the majority of the fighting against Japan, while conducting guerilla warfare against the Japanese forces. The CCP sought to avoid direct conflicts with the Japanese Army in order to emerge from the war stronger than the Nationalist forces, so in the inevitable struggle for dominance, the CCP would be the victor.

As I mentioned in the discussion page of the article itself, the sentences do not sound neutral. It would be more appropriate to say something like "The CCP avoided frontal confrontations with the Japanese Imperial Army while conducting guerilla warfare, in order to spread communist influences and build bases of operations." Hanfresco 12:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Certified.Gangsta RfC

Hey, you probably already know, but there is an RfC on User:Certified.Gangsta at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Certified.Gangsta. I know that you have been involved in and attempted to resolve this dispute, so you might want to consider certifying the RfC so that it is not deleted again. Note that I am not advocating for any particular position. I just want to see this dispute move into the formal resolution processes so that it can be resolved with the least amount of bloodshed possible. The present back and forth on numerous talk pages and the Admin noticeboard is helping no one. --Danaman5 21:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The RfC is now approved. You may wish to make a statement on the matter or add evidence.--Danaman5 04:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
That is incorrect, the RfC is not yet approved. In order for it to meet approval, please point out any attempts on your parts to resolve the dispute (in diff format). If such diffs are already listed, please point these out. Thanks in advance. El_C 21:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
It means diffs featuring yourself speaking to the user in question about the dispute. El_C 21:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China#Naming conventions

Hi please participate in the discussion. --Ideogram 01:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saying hi

Yes, been quite busy with, among other things, preparing for college and playing video games. :P Should hopefully have more time after May. -- 我♥中國 19:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needing Help With Photo Copywright

Hi once more, I have a question about a recently uploaded photo that I want to use for Liuhe Pagoda of China. The article lacked any picture, and it really needs one, considering that it is one of the greatest Song Dynasty (or any) Chinese pagoda standing today.

The image is found at this link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Liuhe_Pagoda.jpg

If you would be so kind, I'd like to have you or somebody else verify the copywright license (it's some random American guy's vacation blog pic). In the meantime, I have given it the GFDL presumed tag, but if I do not verify the copywright stuff, it will be deleted in 7 days!

Thanks for your help, --PericlesofAthens 06:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ranks of the People's Liberation Army

Hi. There's a dispute currently happening on this page. A user added in rank information about two supposed older ranks, the PLA's Marshall and Grand Marshal equivalents. An admin is convinced that the person adding is a sockpuppet and had him banned and reverted. From seeing the edits, and from seeing a source the admin provided, the edits seem legitimate, but I'm not very familiar with the PLA, myself. Since you're in the History wikiproject, you might know a bit more about it and be in a position to comment and hopefully help settle the dispute. --Yuje 11:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 18:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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