User talk:Bloger

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] True Torah Jews

Which organisation is the correct one? The variation on the name is confusing for researchers and there are no claims as to the notability of the organisation. Please remove the inappropriately-named article by tagging {{db-author}} and improve the remainder to show its notable status, if any.  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  18:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The real name is True Torah Jews it was my mistake before but I don’t know how to remove the wrong one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bloger (talk • contribs).

I have removed the incorrectly-named page, so you can now concentrate on the correct version. Regards,  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  18:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

thank you

Bloger

Dear aeropagitica as you can see I am new here and I need help puting this article together can you be any help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bloger (talk • contribs).

The best help that I can offer at the moment is to recommend that you read the welcome salutation that I will attach below. The pages to which it links contain lots of useful information on how to build and maintain good articles on this Wikipedia. Please read the pages thoroughly and don't be afraid to ask questions! Most people will be more-than-willing to assist you. Regards,  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  18:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, Bloger, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!   (aeropagitica)  (talk)  18:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helpme

Hi, what do you need help with? Ask your question here and place the {{helpme}} template at the end so we know to check back.--Commander Keane 21:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi thank you for stooping by

I am wondering how do I make a reference number in an article so it should redirect to the bottom of the page were I put the reference address

B.T.W. I love your nickname I recently rediscovered the commander keen games again after not playing for years and it toot me back to my younger days

Bloger 22:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It is explained at Wikipedia:Footnotes, and an example would be Hyde Park, Western Australia. Basically you put <References/> at the bottom of the page where you want the references to be displayed. Then, in the article where you want the references to appear, you place the <ref>This is a reference etc</ref>.--Commander Keane 22:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome and FYI

Welcome! FYI, out of long advertisement for a fringe group in the article Anti-Zionism I have left one line. The rest (provided there is no WP:COPYVIO, the content is NPOV and WP is not being used as a soapbox) should go into True Torah Jews. I think it needs to be sorted out with Jews against Zionism and Neturei Karta. Currently J.A.Z. redirects to N.K. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You are new here and you could misunderstand what this project is all about. My or your beliefs do not matter. This is an encyclopedia and it should be written from neutral point of view. There are two problems with your additions: 1) your text reads like an advertisement. 2) How can you prove that it is not a fringe group? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your note. I provided a reference. BTW you don't know what my beliefs are, so please be careful in your assumptions. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Please note that WP is not a soapbox. Use the article's talk and watch WP:3RR. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding me. You are correct: I forgot about yesterday and unintentionally broke 3RR. I have reverted myself for now, but that version won't stand. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Message on talk page

Hi,

Just so you know, you don't need to leave a message on my personal Talk page when you reply to me. It's enough to simply reply on the Take page of the article in question. I have it added to my watchlist and will see any comments you make.--Deville (Talk) 17:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

About the AfD. The way it works here is as follows. Someone nominates the article for deletion. Just so you know, any user can nominate an article for deletion. Once the article has been nominated, a notice goes to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2006 May 11. I see that you have commented on the AfD already. Now, any user of Wikipedia can comment, and this deletion debate will be there for seven days. At the end of seven days, if there is a concensus to delete the article, the article will be deleted. Just so you know, it's not a "vote", in that the number of for and against votes will not be tallied to get the result. It really is a debate where concensus needs to be reached.

Just some advice: I have to tell you that the article, as it stands now, is almost guaranteed to be deleted. You have to realize that there are two absolutely unbreakable rules at Wikipedia, specifically Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. My feeling is that this article may not violate the second, but it violates the first pretty dramatically. If you don't see why, please read both of these. The problem here is that it doesn't matter whether or not the subject matter in your article is true or not. What does matter, and matters infinitely much, is whether another reader can verify the information that you've added. This means that some of the information is in a neutral third-party source (specifically, you cannot use the webpage of the organization you're describing). In any case, my guess is that most experienced Wikipedians will think that this article violates WP:V, and this is a big no-no.

Sorry that your first article had so much trouble. Stick around for a while and get a feel for things! Soon you'll know how things work around here.--Deville (Talk) 21:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: True Torah Jews

Thank you for being polite, but I am sorry, your recent arguments have not changed my mind. Almost everything that you can type in Google search will yeild thousands of results, they just aren't related. I also do not see the relavence of the "hardship" of the Neturai Keuta rabbis.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

From what I can see, It is just links to their website, a couple of blogs, or a few other websites for similar fringe groups. Not one reputable organization commented on them.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I stopped looking when it was clear that the links stop referring to True torah Jews, which was the second page.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Once again, what I just said applies.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I consider this conversation over, you are using faulty logic.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Bogger, as I responded on my talk page, I had voted to Keep the article if there was verifiable information, other than the website itself, backing up the existence of such a group. I am unsure what more you would like of me to do when it comes to a "vote". DanielZimmerman 19:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

Hey, there. Thanks for the message about the AfD vote. One thing to keep in mind: your comments will have more impact if you keep them brief and to the point. —Viriditas | Talk 03:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Don't Care

Your page is getting deleted anyway. Almost Famous 20:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] True Torah Jews AfD

I closed the AfD because it had already gone through the prerequisite number of days of AfD discussion. The discussion is not ongoing, it is closed. AfDs close after at least a week of discussions, and this was clearly a week old. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

No, once an AfD is transferred to WP:AFD/Old, it's old enough to be closed, and those are closed after a week. I say "at least" a week because sometimes these AfDs get stuck unclosed due to backlog. In this case, I was taking care of the backlog. The AfD had already gone on long enough for me to close it. And the fact that I did not participate in the debate makes it even better for me to close it, because I am a neutral, uninvolved party who is capable of looking at this objectively. That's what I did. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

If you have new material that you believe is adequate to overturn the results of this AfD, you shouldn't post it in the AfD itself because the AfD is now inactive. The best place to present your new material is in WP:DRV, but only if the new material is sufficient enough, in your opinion, to overturn the results of the AfD. You should read WP:DRV very carefully before listing something, because WP:DRV is usually about process and whether I violated process when I closed the AfD. Your new information is unlikely to prove that I broke process, and the information might also be insufficient to get your article undeleted, but if you think it will, you can always try. :-) However, if you do so, I must ask that you let me know so I can weigh in and not feel like I'm being backstabbed. Alternatively, you can tell me what your new information is, and I'll give you my opinion on whether this new material will likely overturn the results of the AfD. I can guarantee you that I'm neutral to this because I was just a neutral AfD closer looking at other people's votes. Just let me know if you need any help. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:16, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... if these newspapers are available online, you might not even need to have the editors confirm the existence. That depends on how notable the newspapers are, but this might be information you could present to the DRV. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would. However, the notability of the True Torah Jews themselves were already evaluated and dismissed by those who contributed to the AfD. I think the notability of the TTJ is in question, and I don't think the two newspapers would increase the notability of the TTJ. I could be wrong, however. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

If that's the case, you can probably try to present the new info in WP:DRV and see what the rest of the Wikipedians think. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:14, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

You can find out all you need to know by reading the WP:DRV page. I'm not sure how long discussion goes for, but I've noticed that backlog there tends to be a little longer than a week. If you want, once you have your material ready, I can create a fresh entry in the DRV for you to put your content in. Also, not all the people who contributed in the original AfD need to be in the DRV. There are sufficient people who look at the DRV page to provide consensus. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I'm logging off now and won't be back on for an hour or two, but let me know when you have the material ready, and I'll create a section for you to put your stuff into. --Deathphoenix ʕ 21:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that might be sufficient information for a deletion review. You can either present it to Wikipedia:Deletion review yourself, or I can do it for you, if you want. --Deathphoenix ʕ 13:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, you can email it to me using Special:Emailuser/Deathphoenix. Please note, however, if the content is huge, I will not put it on the deletion review page, and would instead suggest that you put it on a subpage (like User:Bloger/True Torah Jews notability or something like that) and I'll link to it instead. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Authenticate your email. :-) Another alternate solution is for you to simply write out your evidence in User:Bloger/True Torah Jews notability. Let me know when you've completed it, and I'll either copy the material to the deletion review page, or simple link to it. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've submitted it to Wikipedia:Deletion review#True Torah Jews. Feel free to make your own comments there, as appropriate. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Bloger, I'll respond to your question in the DRV so that others will know that I responded or can respond. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think you advanced a little bit on verifiability, but it would really help if you can find an online source in English that says "True Torah Jews" that we can verify. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

"Google hits" refers to the number of entries the term shows up when you do a search for it on Google. "Google ranking" might refer to Google PageRank, which shows how many pages link to it: the higher the number, the higher the rank, and the higher the rank, the earlier it shows up on a Google Search. Google PageRank is on a scale of 10. 0/10 means very few pages link to it, 10/10 means a lot of pages link to it. --Deathphoenix ʕ 13:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

That's not bad, but it might not be good enough for it to have its own article. However, the deletion review right now seems to be going towards not keeping TTJ. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, you can't. You've already presented your findings, the DRV voters have voted. The only thing you can do now is accept the findings of this DRV and move on. I've had some stuff I've worked on be deleted via AfD as well. Just continue your fine work on other articles. :-) --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No, you only get five days for deletion review, just like you only get five days for AFD, sorry. In any case, I don't think you could have changed Geogre's mind, so the best thing for you to do is move on to another article. :-) --Deathphoenix ʕ 02:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sdei Chemed

Why did I tag it? It looked like the beginnings of an interesting article, but wasn't linked to anything (something you've since corrected). I'll remove the tag now. Czolgolz 21:50, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] help

State the nature of your Wikipedian emergency. Sasquatch t|c 23:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I made an article and I afterwards realized the contend is already written about in a different article.

I want to redirect his article to the older article.

Bloger 23:20, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Replace the content of the page you want to redirect with #redirect [[NAME OF PAGE TO REDIRECT TO]]. For more information, see Wikipedia:Redirect. Cheers! Sasquatch t|c 23:22, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

It's working, it just doesn't show when you click save. Click Sdei Chemed to see. :-) Always glad to help. Sasquatch t|c 23:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:DER YID.pdf

Thanks for uploading Image:DER YID.pdf. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Wikipedia:Image use policy
• Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 18:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Satmar?

Hi, if you count yourself as belonging to Satmar you might add Category:Wikipedian Satmarers to (the bottom of) your user page. I just noticed your additions to the archived discussion on True Torah Jews. Welcome to Wikipedia! --Daniel575 07:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] True Torah Jews 2

(Dear Geogre this is the article you requested)

True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization formed by a group of religious Orthodox Jews dedicated to spreading its view that the ideology of Zionism is in opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism^[1].

It opposes both the ideology of Zionism and the creation of a Jewish state (the nation of Israel) before the coming of the moshiach. Therefore, the NPO works to 1) inform the world that it views Israel as not a Jewish state, but as a Zionist state, 2) to change references to Israel in media and popular culture from "Jewish state" to "Zionist state", 3) to inform the philanthropic public that giving to Israel is giving to Zionism rather than Judaism, 4) to inform Jews themselves about rabbinical opposition to Zionism as an ideology.

The group is not affiliated with any groups or coalition, but is rather a grassroots movement within the orthodox Jewish community that enjoys significant support among anti-Zionist orthodox Jews.^[2].

Its outreach efforts include a web site [1], a weekly newsletter called Parsha Pearls that has a weekly lesson from the torah that focuses on Jews in exile [2], and it issues newsletters on special occasions (e.g. on the Israeli Independence Day) [3]. The group also takes out ads in the leading American newspapers and on leading radio stations and talk shows with a significant Jewish audience expressing the above beliefs and messages. Finally, it puts out press releases on the position of True Torah Jews on current events.

The web site of the True Torah Jews receives many many hits daily, In fact in the mouth of July 2006 alone the site had over 104,127 pages visited and 75,134 unique visitors with a total of 1,831,950 hits. ^[3] (Although it’s not the most hits a website can receive, and other websites – about different things – receive more hits, however given the limited amount of people interested in this subject – in respect to other subjects – and the amount of hits the website receives, it is percentage wise comparable to the amount of hits a well visited website of any subject should receive.) Consequently of the above, the TTJ makes quite an uproar with far reaching results since the TTJ has no other goal – as for example selling an item – besides educating people, the meare fact that a significant amount of people visit and read the material on the site is accomplishing the goal.

In addition, some mainstream Jewish press has commented on the movement True Torah Jews. For example both, “Der Yid” and “Der Blatt” (The official newspapers of the two satmar factions the Aron’s and Zalman’s) have written about the TTJ group and its activities in its article on the Israeli elections ^[4].

[edit] References

1. ^ User:Bloger/True Torah Jews notability
2. ^ User:Bloger/True Torah Jews notability 1
3. ^ Image:Stats for TTJ.pdf
4. ^ User:Bloger/True Torah Jews notability

• • Bloger, that's my edit version. Compare the diffs, if you want to see what changes I made for readability. There is at least one significant citation still needed, and you really should have something about what effect the TTJ has generated. Example: "In 2006, the web presence of True Torah Jews received coverage in ____, and some mainstream Jewish press has commented on the movement True Torah Jews represents. For example, ____ has mentioned the anti-Zionist movement in its article on _____. As part of an ongoing debate in the Orthodox Jewish community, the True Torah Jews effort represents one of the more vigorous defenses of the messianic expectation." Something along those lines would emphasize the effect of the site/movement and help survive any AfD critique. Geogre 17:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar

Many thanks for this Barnstar - it was a wonderful surprise. Just get straight on to me if you need any further help. BlueValour 21:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

Hi There! Can you translate my name in what language you know please, and then post it Here. I would be very grateful if you do (if you know another language apart from English and the ones on my userpage please feel free to post it on) P.S. all th translations are in alpahbetical order so when you add one please put it in alpahbetical order according to the language. Thanks!!! Abdullah Geelah 21:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yiddish

hi, I was just wondering if you happened to know of any websites that teach you some basic Yiddish. I've looked on Wikipedia too, but I didn't find anything. We have many pages that teaches you a few lines in hundreds of languages and I just want to make sure that Yiddish will not be left out. Thanks, (LonghornJohnny 22:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Self-sacrifice_under_Jewish_Law

Hello. Just in case it is not on your watchlist, please look at Self-sacrifice_under_Jewish_Law. It was tagged for copy-editing, and I gave it a shot. I changed the references to "negative commandments" to "prohibitions," since I have discovered that "negative comandments" causes a lot of confusion for most folk who are not accustomed to the phrase. I did some other tidying up, too. I would appreciate your checking it to make sure I didn't accidentally alter any meaning. --Sean Lotz 06:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did in Grande Baroque. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that exist to attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam policies for further explanations of links that are considered appropriate. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. See the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Leuko 03:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Der blatt.pdf

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:DER YID.pdf

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Der yid Translation.pdf

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Traditional Jews Appalled by Connection to Israel.pdf

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Mid East Impasse.pdf

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Stats for TTJ.pdf