Talk:Bleach media and materials

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There is an insert song that isn't mentioned in the theme music section. Its Number One by Hazel FERNANDEZ

None of the music from the Bleach soundtrack is on this page, other than openings and closings. Feel free to create/expand the soundtrack section with tracks for the OST, such as Number One. -- Ynhockey 13:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Fansubs 2 Arc 3 3 List of Bleach releases? 4 Page move (again) 5 Question/potential addition 6 Advice for continuing work on Bleach Beat Collections 7 Vic Mignogna Pledge 8 Bleach English dub ED

[edit] Fansubs

I think fansub and scanlation groups should be included in a Bleach-related page, this one seemed appropriate. Why do you think this is wrong? Fansubs are, after all, the only translations of the anime to English, I'd imagine it would be important for a Wikipedia article to list the groups involved with Bleach. -- Ynhockey || Talk 19:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Fansubs and scanlations exist in a grey area legally. While technically illegal, most anime/manga companies allow them unless something is licensed in the US...but some DON'T, especially as their property becomes more high-profile. And with the Bleach manga licensed in the US, listing fansubbers for the anime risks the wrong people getting wind of said listings and deciding to kick up a fuss...and then we don't have any subtitled Bleach. Even though people KNOW about such things, unless you put the information in their faces they can pretend to ignore it. And a VERY widely perused website like Wikipedia is just the sort of thing that makes it so the fansubs can't be ignored. It sounds strange, but that's really how it works. So I wouldn't recommend listing what groups fansub it, just as nobody in their right mind would expect Wikipedia to list WHERE to get said fansubs. But of course the will of the majority prevails, so if anyone else feels it's okay to list the groups doing the subs, then put them back. I just prefer to play it safe. And on a related note about scanlations, those are SERIOUSLY illegal now since, as already stated, the manga is licensed in the US. Even the volumes we don't HAVE yet. Nezu Chiza 04:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Nezu Chiza that these activities are legally iffy. For those reasons, and general Wikipedia notability guidelines, there's no need to list groups. - mako 05:21, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

While I don't think the fact that it's on Wikipedia would make licensers shut down fansub and scanlation groups, it seems that I'm in the minority and therefore will delete the entry for scanlation groups now. On a side note, fansubs are illegal only because the groups release the entire video, releasing just the subs (say, in .srt format) is fair use AFAIK. -- Ynhockey || Talk 09:06, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I've read that even scripts aren't fully legal, because they're derived directly from the original work. - mako 16:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it would constitute as fair use as long as the fansubber gives credit to the creator and doesn't sell it. But it's possible that the studios say it's illegal - for instance, you can back up audio CDs for personal use as many times as you want, but Digital Rights Management usually prohibits it anyway, to 'stop piracy' (which it doesn't accomplish). In any case, I'm 100% sure it would be legal in Israel to make subs, and 99% sure it would be legal in the UK. The US is a more difficult question however. Does Wikipedia have any copyright legal experts? -- Ynhockey || Talk 16:49, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Try asking over on the Copyright pages. I know that, if nothing else, there are Wiki contributors who are also law students. As for including scanlation/fansub groups, anyone with google could find them simply by searching for the name of the series +scanlation or bittorrent, so it's not really essential. --Tjstrf 16:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arc 3

Does Arc 3 have an official name or is it all speculation? I'm asking because someone just changed the name and I have no idea what is correct. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 08:02, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Bleach releases?

Although the user who moved the page seems to be an experienced Wikipedian, I can't quite see the rationale behind the move. Also, IMO Bleach media information more accurately describes what the article is about (for example, voice actors are not releases). Night Gyr, please explain why you moved the article. Other users should also state their opinions on what the article should be called. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I moved it because the term "information" is redundant in the title of any wikipedia article--they're all "information," so it's pointless to call it that. After more thorough reading, it's got more information than just a list of the releases, so it'd probably be best off at "Bleach releases" or something similar (Bleach media? Bleach merchandise?) to indicate that the information is deeper than a list. Night Gyr 22:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, now that I look over it again, I'm not sure what the point or focus of this article is. It seems like a hodgepodge of cast lists and track lists about various releases, that would be better off broken into the specific articles for the releases themselves, or into a more focused list, like "list of Bleach songs" or "list of Bleach actors." Otherwise, how are we deciding what information goes where? WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information after all. Once we know the focus, it'll be easier to pick a title. Looking at the main article, a lot of the information relegated to here (like publication and production information for the anime and manga) belongs in the main article, which currently is overly focused on plot summary and description of the fictional elements, as opposed to the circumstances surrounding its publication and real-world impact. Night Gyr 22:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Try the title Bleach media materials (or media and materials). However, you do make a good point, if we want to bring the main Bleach article up to FA status, we need a lot more real world info and a lot less fictional universe stuff. We may not be able to pull that off until after the series completes, however. It's all I can do to keep anons from making the articles into a blow-by-blow exposition of every battle in the series. --tjstrf 06:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking about bringing the main Bleach article up to FA status, and then I realized how much less useful it would be to everyone if it was written from an out-of-universe perspective. So many useless words added to every sentence. Dekimasu 13:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move (again)

I moved the page to a new title once more, as the previous title did not convery the idea that this article is about Bleach media as a whole. On the downside, the new title does not contain the word "list" anywhere. I don't claim the new title is perfect, but it will hopefully at least spark discussion. --tjstrf 07:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding "materials" leads me to believe I should add information about merchandising efforts by Jump (yes, you really can buy Soul Candy at the Jump Store). Is this something that should be included? Some of the stuff is really fun, btw. Dekimasu 13:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question/potential addition

I was just scanning this page and couldn't seem to find the book that we cite on nearly every character page, Bleach Official Character Book Souls. I don't know which one of us has the book or whatever, but it probably belongs in this article. Also, I just stumbled across this book, and I'm trying to figure out what on earth it is... --Anaraug 08:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I just found it on another website, and it seems to be a databook. Is this the same thing as Bleach Official Character Book Souls, or is one of them in English and the other in Japanese?--Anaraug 08:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Bleach in Bleach is not the same as the character book. It has a series of "questions" (usually discussing apparent plot paradoxes, or philosophical questions like "Where are all the white people in Soul Society? Why does everyone speak Japanese?") and then possible answers that usually beat around the bush. It's kind of interesting, and Kubo is referenced, but it's not really canonical. I'd be surprised if it gets published in English. Sorry to only answer now... had taken this page off my watchlist for some reason. Dekimasu 17:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advice for continuing work on Bleach Beat Collections

I've been creating pages for the Bleach Beat Collection individual songs. I've received a usertalk saying that "the songs aren't notable according to Wikipedia standards" and that they will probably be deleted. I honestly have no problem discontinuing work on them, but the main point of my adding them is for the lyrics and the translations of those lyrics. I have found it difficult to find many of them and I know that quite a few people would love to have them all in one place, especially in one easy-to-access place such as Wikipedia. Like I said, I have no problem simply discontinuing them, but I just wanted to know what anyone else would advise me to do.

Grbrock 06:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you could check out alternative Wikis (like [1], which is designed to be a database of Asian pop culture, and it has a lot of song pages with lyrics to songs, so you could add the pages in question there) or you could create your own website: [2] and [3], among many others, offer free website accounts (or pay options, if you prefer not to have advertisements all over your site) which you could use to post the lyrics. You could also check out anime-based lyric sites like [4] and [5], which accept submissions of lyrics and translations. Hope that helps! Nique1287 16:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There has to be a reason to include information other than the simple existence of it. Besides that, song lyrics also have issues with copyright. We can use small quotes, but including the entire song would likely be a violation unless there was a very good fair-use justification for its necessity. Wikipedia can't even include the lyrics for Happy Birthday to You. –Gunslinger47 00:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to see them, but due to the issues we pointed out, I have prodded the articles. One was already listed as a copyvio. They are Fuyu no Hanabi, My Blade As My Pride (song), and Tattoos on the Sky (song). Thanks for your understanding and I hope you'll continue to edit the Bleach articles. Dekimasu 05:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vic Mignogna Pledge

I seriously and truthfully and honestly state that Vic Mignogna, the actual Vic Mignogna the voice actor wrote that email to me and It is completely an undoctored photograph except for the removal of my name and my email because I do not want anyone seeing it. I ask you to trust me and I ask you to take me at my word.--Jack Cox 04:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

E-mails (much less pictures of e-mails) are not verifiable and therefore not reliable. That is why third-party sources are preferred. Anyway, if your information is correct, there should be third-party sources out there somewhere either now or in the near future. Its nice that you have decided to become a first-hand investigator but most of Wikipedia is built on third-party information that has been peer-reviewed by others of which your "proof" is not. Gdo01 04:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bleach English dub ED

Has anyone noticed that the ED for the English dub's 26th episode is still Arigatō and not Hōkiboshi? What's up with that? Does anyone know if they plan to use Hōkiboshi at all? I don't care that much, but the ending credits were actually somewhat interesting in those episodes in Japanese. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)