Talk:Blackadder

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Blackadder article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Article policies
Former featured article Blackadder is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article Milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophy

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 8, 2005.

Contents

[edit] Page Switch

I'm probably going to switch these two pages round -- Blackadder and Black Adder. The first series was in 2 words, but all subsequent stuff is 1, and I've nearly aslways seen it written as such. I'll give it a week or so for comments -- Tarquin 03:53 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)

I agree. Season one was called "The Black Adder", then we have "Blackadder II", "Blackadder the Third", "Blackadder Goes Forth" and "Blackadder's Christmas Story". So it definitely looks like "Blackadder" became the preferred term. (source http://blackadder.powertie.org/episodes/). And it's the character's surname - Sir Edmund Blackadder, Captain Blackadder, etc. so one word again seems best. - ChrispyH 08:49 Sep 2, 2002 (PDT)
In the words of Grampa Simpson, Hot Diggity, that's good enough for me! Stand by ... -- Tarquin 08:58 Sep 2, 2002 (PDT)
Brilliant page. Well done all concerned. --bodnotbod 23:05, May 1, 2004 (UTC)
Note that it is Blackadder's Christmas Carol not "Story"

[edit] Allusions in opening credits

Blackadder II and Blackadder the Third both struck me as alluding to other shows not mentioned in the article. Blackadder II opens with a black adder slithering across checkered tiles, which I found quite reminiscent of the opening sequence of "I, Claudius". The ominous violin music that starts the former even recalls the striking opening notes of the latter, although it's stylistically rather different. The opening of Blackadder the Third, with Edmund looking through a library of Blackadder-themed texts, also reminds me of the Masterpiece Theatre opening, in which the camera moves about a study, revealing novels of the various stories that have been featured on the show. That may be a bit of a stretch, as Masterpiece Theatre is simply an umbrella series, created in the U.S., in which (mostly) British television series (we in the U.S. would call them "miniseries") are shown, and thus seems unlikely to have influenced the Blackadder writers. Could someone with a British perspective provide some insight on these two potential allusions? -- Jeff Q 07:16, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've certainly noticed the similarity with the I, Claudius opening sequence, so that's not just you, although whether it's intentional or not is another matter. I'm afraid I haven't seen Masterpiece Theatre, so I couldn't really comment on that. -- TheJames 14:49, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Count me in as a third vote for the resemblence of Blackadder II to the opening credits to I, Claudius. --Auz 00:57, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Separate series pages

This page is rather big. Would it not be better to have a seperate page for each series, and just the overview and links here?

Yes - the page is now 40k and needs to be split in some way while, hopefully, containing summaries and sufficient detail for this to be a featured article. violet/riga (t) 23:11, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Well, one idea would be to create List of Blackadder episodes and spin out all of the episode lists for the 4 series (the specials could be added to the list too, of course). Alternatively, the sections on each series could also be spun out to separate articles and replaced by a shorter summary. In any event, "Blackadder: The Cavalier Years" is the only special not to have a separate page, so again this section spun out and replaced by a summary. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:58, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Is this page featured?

I don't get it. Is this page featured or not? It's just that I did practically all the characters, and I'd quite like to give myself a pat on the back (What a true cunt I am)--Crestville 16:23, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Not yet, though it is on wp:fac. violet/riga (t) 23:11, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pilot

Has the pilot episode ever been included in any of the DVD compilations? Jooler 23:28, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

No. That's the answer. A website called 'Some of the Corpses are Amusing' had a lengthy description of the pilot, complete with screen captures - they had access to a bootleg - but although SOTCAA still exists, in altered form, it doesn't have that page any more. It was part of the site's 'edit news' section, if I recall correctly.-Ashley Pomeroy 08:57, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
And, (cough), thanks to the internet, and for the purposes of review only, I hasten to add, this pilot episode has now entered the orbit of my hard drive. I shall see if there's anything worth mentioning in the article itself. The quality is very much like a multi-generation VHS tape. The theme tune is the same. It is set '400 years ago' according to the scrolling text at the beginning. It's shot cheaply on video in the studio. It's called THE BLACK ADDER, by Richard Curtis and Rowan Atkinson. The cast list features "Prince Edward - Rowan Atkinson", "Perry - Tim McInnerny", Baldrick - Philip Fox, who is a prolific but generally unknown television actor in the UK; the character of Baldrick is much the same, however, and he does indeed say "I have a cunning plan", which is "quite cunning". The king is not Richard III, and the historical period is much less precise; there is mention of fighting the Spanish. Blackadder's character is much more aggressive than he was in the real first series; he's closer in spirit to the scheming Blackadder of later on, but more hyperactive. It's not very funny, unfortunately. The wordplay that became so much the show's tradmark hasn't been devised yet, the grotesqueness is greatly toned down, the historical humour is very broad, and the characters aren't quite right. I'm guessing, but I assume that the producers realised this and made some drastic changes for the actual series - Rowan Atkinson was a hot property at the time, so I suppose it had to be commissioned - which also didn't work. Enter Ben Elton. "I'm afraid the eunuchs can't make it (to the party); they are in Chester, and dare not make the journey in this inclement weather", "No balls, that's their problem".-Ashley Pomeroy 20:46, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
dot dot dot at which point I realise that the article actually has most of this information in it already. There's a webpage here [1] which has some screen captures. Where above I write 'Perry', I should have written 'Percy' - the video quality is v. poor.-Ashley Pomeroy 20:51, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Real Blackadders

Would it be pertinent to include allegedly real "Blackadders" like the artist Elizabeth Blackadder and the rumored Major-General Charles Guinand Blackadder? There is a grave at St. Martin's Cathedral: http://uk.geocities.com/st_martins_leicester/george1.htm

[edit] Links in chronological order section

All but two of the links in the Chronological order section were circular, redirected back to this article. (The exceptions were Blackadder: Back & Forth, which has its own article, and Blackadder The Third, whose case disagreed with the redirect, the former of which I fixed here.) Given that this article has not been split up into separate articles, as has been suggested, it seemed more logical to have these links jump to the internal reference, as it appears to be a mini-table of contents (at least until someone creates all those other articles).

The problem is that the shows all contain Wiki italics markup ('') in the headers, which I can't figure out how to add to an internal link. (Links don't like apostrophes; the ".XX" format [where XX is the hex code for the character] doesn't seem to work if it's immediately followed by printable characters; and "%DD", where "DD" is the decimal ASCII code, didn't work, either.)

For now, the specials (whose titles include "double quotes", which links don't seem to mind) all jump to their description. I've removed the other, superfluous links, pending either a technical solution to my stated problem, or the creation of articles for each of the series. I also left "Back & Forth" as an internal link, because (A) it would be confusing to have only one of the links in the mini-TOC jump to another article, and (B) there's a link to the "B:B&F" article in its section. — Jeff Q (talk) 01:31, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Easily fixed - just grab the links by Copy Link Location-ing (or Copy Shortcut in IE, IIRC) from the Table of Contents and copy everything after and including the # (I fixed it) = SoM 00:26, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks for fixing that, and for the tip! Based on your working version, it seems we can ignore apostrophes in headers. That's good to know, too. Jeff Q 00:39, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 16:28, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Are we sure of the lyrics to the theme?

I haven't seen the official lyrics, but I thought that what the article has as:

Black: his gloves of finest mole, 
Black: his codpiece made of metal, 
His horse is blacker than a bull, 
His pot is blacker than his kettle.

should actually be:

Black: his gloves of finest mole, 
Black: his codpiece made of metal, 
His horse is blacker than a vole, 
His pot is blacker than his kettle.

Note that the latter rhymes, and voles (at least the one in the linked article) are black.

I would have said hole. Blacker than a hole.--Crestville 10:48, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Of course, mole/vole mirror each other. Plus, Google gives 234 for "vole", including Blackadder Hall, and 43 for "hole" (and 3 for bull, all from WP or WP mirrors. I don't know where that came from. It doesn't even rhyme...) - SoM
Strange... I always thought it was: "His horse is blacker than a hole". Sweetfreek 04:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it is "vole". Case closed. (unsigned comment by User:N^O^el, who removed above comments -- Michael Warren | Talk July 5, 2005 01:17 (UTC))

This case is never going to be closed until someone can provide a real source. Google is not a source; it's a popularity meter (although I'm inclined to suspect it's correct in this case). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:33, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Who is citing Google? Believe it or not, some of the people on here do actually know what they are talking about. It is, for the last time, vole . Sources? Try the Blackadder books, DVD, and Howard Goodall's official website. Can I say 'case closed' again?, I think I can: case closed. N^O^el 07:36, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

As N^O^el says the BBC DVD subtitles have vole, so thats about as authoritative as it needs to get, even if the first time around he went around trying to end the discussion the wrong way. Sfnhltb 21:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It looks like somebody changed it to "hole". ThatGuamGuy 15:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)sean

It could have something to do with this trivia on amazon.ca for the Blackadder DVD set: "Many Internet websites incorrectly list a line as "His horse is blacker than a vole," however the 2000 DVD release of the first series confirms that the line is actually "his horse is blacker than a hole."" http://www.amazon.ca/Blackadder-Complete-Collector-s-Set/dp/fun-facts/B000EBCEVS Merc_2k

[edit] Clarity

For the sake of clarity, I think this line should be changed:

'Blackadder came second in a 2004 BBC poll to find 'Britain's Best Sitcom', 

confirming the wisdom of Grade's decision to revive the show.'

As it could be read that Grade revived the show around about the same as the poll. Having said that I can't think of better wording for at the moment.

it's clarified earlier in the paragraph

[edit] Quotes

The current quotes section seems a bit weak, well particularly the one very extended Young Crone section, it might be better to replace this with a selection of more pithy quotes with one from each series at least to give a better sample of the range of material in the series. I might have a go at it later when I have more time to go through it, but in case someone else feels up to it I just wanted to point it out as something I consider a weaker point of the current article. Sfnhltb 21:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Have to agree with the Young Crone quote being too long. Guinness 09:15, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree! I have removed two long quotes and replaced them with a shorter one from 'Beer' (Series 2). The Flasheart quote (Series 4) that was already there is pretty good, if we could get short quotes from Series 1 and 3, I think it would finish it off nicely! --20:31, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
OK, I've added a quote from Series 3 --20:44, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Blackadder episodes

It has already been suggested, but I think it's time to actually transfer episodes to List of Blackadder episodes. If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and do this in about a week. I plan to follow the style of List of The Simpsons episodes, to an extent, but with a little more detail per episode. Any thoughts or suggestions? --Lox (t,c) 11:14, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Seems there are no objections; I'm going ahead and doing this now! --Lox (t,c) 19:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Content has been moved to List of Blackadder episodes and is currently being rewritten. I am going to start removing duplicate content on Blackadder to reduce article size --Lox (t,c) 14:42, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wibble redirecting here?

Why is Wibble to Blackadder? Shouldn't it point to Roger Irrelevant? Shermozle 14:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Viz & Blackadder should fight it out. Frankly, I think Viz'd win. The Bacons? Big Vern? Buster Gonad? those flowery historical ponces got no Chance.--Crestville 15:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The OED has a citation for wibble (as in "wibble and wobble") from 1871 (see this, available for free until 10pm today thanks to Balderdash and Piffle). They also have a citation for the related "wibble-wobble" back to 1847. They say "wibble" (meaning "to witter or waffle") goes back to Blackadder Goes Forth in 1989, but they must have used it in earlier series. But there are a number of sources (such as this) that refer to Roger Irrelevant earlier in the 1980s for the "nonsense" meaning. Perhaps you should tell Victoria Coren - another chance to change the dictionary? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, that also misses the (more recent) use of Wibble as a Metasyntactic variable Shermozle 17:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Ha - the OED does not even list the term "metasyntactic"! -- ALoan (Talk) 17:51, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I've added "wibble" to metasyntactic variable, changed the redirect to that article, and discussed the history there. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Without wishing to seem argumentative for the sake of it, I have no idea what a metathingie variable sherwaddiewaddie is, and after briefly viewing the article, I hope I never will. Perhaps a disambiguation page would be best? Optimus Sledge 23:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blackadder II End Titles Location

Does anybody know where these were filmed? I was wondering where the path that the minstrel dances around Edmund is - presumably they were filmed at a stately home. However, I couldn't find anything on any fan websites. They were probably recorded on the same day as the outside scene with Kate in Bells, as there are no more location shots in the entire series. Rob 22:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes and such

I wonder if most of the quotes in the section Popularity and effects on popular culture should be moved to wikiquote, just leaving a few of each to act as samples. And maybe the lyrics can go the same way as well, it doesn't add a whole lot to the article which is fairly long and has a few areas like this that don't really give much information compared to how large they are. Sfnhltb 05:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I could not agree more. There are WAY too many. I back your idea of moving most of them to Wikiquote. Five quotes would actually be enough (possibly more than enough). Also, the Quotes section should probably also be moved, unless it has some value to the article. Zepheus 19:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pilot/Woman's Hour invasion

I've put brief summaries of the pilot and Woman's Hour invasion under their appropriate sections, with links to the Blackadder Hall pages. These need expanding, and possible also some fact-checking, but they're started as opposed to just holding question marks. - Zepheus 16:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible mistake in Moral Messages?

(in Goodbyeee..., there's a scene which shows Haig playing with toy soldiers, which he sweeps nonchalantly from trench to trench, and then onto the floor while listening to Blackadder's plea to get out of the final push on the phone)

This isn't correct, IIRC. Haig merely sweeps the toy soldiers into a dustpan with a brush and then dumps the contents of the dustpan into a bin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stu-Rat (talk • contribs).

When you say bin, do you mean trash-bin? Just clarifying. - Zepheus 21:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes. But just bin, not trash-bin. Rubbish bin would be acceptable. :) British show, so British word. :) --Stu-Rat 14:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overlong

This article is far too expansive and covers irrelevant and redundant data. It ought to be reduced as soon as possible. I have removed the quotations from the "Popularity and Effects on Popular Culture" because the list was too long, and most of it was probably covered by wikiquote. So has the "quotes" section been remove. Not only that, but I see no justification whatsoever to include such a list in this section. Furthermore, I believe that none of the information contained there fits under it either; however, I have allowed it to remain because I believe the information could be useful if moved elsewhere. "The Shakespeare Sketch" must have some information besides a year or the entire "specials" subsection ought to be removed; this is unsatisfactory. If there's going to be so much information on each of the series, then they probably ought to have their own pages. Lastly, much of the article seems to be speculative and may require an intensive overhaul. Metalrobot 13:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I would second much of Metalrobot's comments and add that it is more than a bit odd that the synopsis for the 15 minute 'Cavalier Years' special is longer than any two of the regular series sections put together. Also, the comparison to 'The Three Musketeers' is unsourced and smacks of original research. I feel sure that it was a labor of love for the wikipedian who put it in and I don't want to start an edit war, but I thought it worth mentioning so that other wikimembers can come to a consensus (or maybe they will have a cunning plan) about it.MarnetteD | Talk 15:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I just want to comment, that probably because of these removals, this section has nothing to do with neither popularity, nor cultural effects anymore. It's just some information about production now (ok, and half of a sentence about Baldrick's catchphrase). The section should be renamed or edited into some other section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.50.194.230 (talk) 12:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Template

I strongly suggest the use of a picture of one of the more recognisable blackadder incarnations on the Edmund Blackadder template. While I appreciate the original Blackadder is held in high regard by cretain users on wikipedia, the first series is not highly thought of in general public circles. Also, the first blackadder does not represent the more familiar characteristics of the Blackadders (just look at his stupid face compared to the more condecending, refined look of the other 3). I personally would champion Blackadder II who seems the most recognisable. His image is used in the main wikipedia article and was the primary icon used in the Greatest Sitcom series.--Crestville 19:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA

If this article used to be an FA, but has since declined in quality what's to stop us just reverting it back to its state when it was granted FA status?--Crestville 16:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Beause it really wasn't good enough in the first place. ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 02:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia: WikiProject Fawlty Towers

If you're interested in sitcoms you may wish to join my new Fawlty Towers-based wikiproject to maintain the standard, and create fabulous new articles based upon this milestone in British Comedy. If you are interested, and woud like to bcome a member, please enquire at the above link, or on my talk page for more information. Thanks Foxearth 02:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mrs Miggins?

(Mrs Miggins' pie shop was a never-seen running gag in Blackadder II; she — or at least, a descendant of hers — is now finally shown). Wasn't Mrs Miggin's Pie Shop shown in the episode "Potato"? This is a serious question, as i can't recall and may indeed be confused. WookMuff 10:20, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

No Mrs Miggin's pie shop was never shown in series 2. I believe it was mentioned twice (I may be forgetting one?), once in 'Potato' when she was 'bed ridden from the nose down' and had baked a pie in the shape of 'an enormous pie' and once in 'Money' when Blackadder demands money off the bishop for a 'slap-up meal at Mrs Miggins'.Jameskeates 07:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

And in 'Bells' when Percy suggests he and Bob eat there. VolatileChemical 11:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] black snake??

What is the species of black snake shown in the intro of Blackadder II??--Sonjaaa 21:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL!!! Er .. hang on, you aren't joking are you? This may help: Vipera_berus#Description :¬) Garrick92 12:02, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not joking! Right now the article says it's actually not a viper/adder, so I was wondering, what is it then? or is it a European viper after all?--Sonjaaa 20:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linking to articles on real-life historical figures in the character list?

Specifically, Sir Walter 'Ooh What A Big Ship I've Got' Raleigh, and Field Marshal Douglas "Douggie" Haig. Should we really be linking to the real people? Shouldn't we look at creating new articles about the fictional caricatures in Blackadder, in the same way as we have one for Queenie? At the moment we're not even consistent. --Loccy 11:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spoiler warning

Need to push the spoiler warning up a bit to as early as Blackadder#Developments over the series where it states "...then dies after succumbing to some poisoned wine...". Stating that the Main character dies is definetely a spoiler. 144.139.223.128 12:25, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Theme Music

The opening theme music for Series 3 (Regency) is lengthily described in the article. But, could someone please tell me the derivation and the significance of the closing theme music in this series. Thank you!--PeadarMaguidhir 11:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Origin of Name

The Blackadder series was almost certainly named, without his foreknowledge and to his subsequent mild irritation, after Dr Eric Blackadder, with whom I played golf on a number of occasions in the mid-eighties at the Hampstead course. Dr Blackadder had been senior medical adviser at the BBC for a considerable period before I met him. I believe he was then in his mid-sixties - I have had no contact with him since 1990 and I see his name does not appear in the list of Hampstead members for 2003-4.

The name "Blackadder" sounds outlandish to South-East-of-England ears. However there are 24 individual entries under that surname in the Edinburgh and District telephone directory. There is at least one village - I believe two - called Blackadder in the South-East of Scotland. (There is also a "Whiteadder").

Dr Blackadder, at the time I knew him, had all the formality and correctness of an Edinburgh doctor. I grew up in Edinburgh myself, and although I was about twenty years younger and a very different character to him, I felt we understood each other. It was not difficult, however, for me to imagine that the creative spirits in which the BBC abounds might identify Dr Blackadder as an object of parody. Some might see thoughtfulness, but others stiffness, in his manner of speaking.

The way Dr Blackadder told me the story indicated clearly that he thought his name had been deliberately purloined for the series. He said he had been present at a BBC cocktail party when a TV producer he knew rushed up to him. My memory after more than a decade and a half is bound to be faulty in minor respects, but I believe the producer said something like the following to Dr Blackadder. "Oh Eric, so glad to see you at last, been trying to get hold of you, but you know how it is, one never gets enough time, every time I tried to phone you you weren't there, terribly sorry, gosh is that the time, anyway, just wanted to tell you, really sorry you weren't informed, anyway Eric old chap we've just done a new comedy series, heavens I should have been gone five minutes ago, the point is, Eric, that the series happens to bear your name, can't think how that happened, one of those things that just transpires in our world, but very glad to have told you now, load off my mind, 'fraid it's in the can now so nothing can be done, you never know how these things are going to turn out but I have a sort of hunch this one might be quite good, really must rush now but so glad to have talked with you, definitely talk at more length soon, bye."

Dr Blackadder also told me that after the series had become successful he booked a family dinner for about ten in some London restaurant. He was slightly startled by the red-carpet treatment which the manager and staff accorded him and his guests, until the manager asked him with a hint of dismay in his voice when Rowan Atkinson was going to turn up.

Iainsmith 22:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../b/l/a/Talk%7EBlackadder_f758.html"