Talk:Black pepper

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Can pepper ever "go bad" -- rot or mold? Garrett Albright 00:39, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Of course! -- WormRunner 00:45, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think we need a history of the black pepper trade as it was very significant historically.

The Kuro5hin article at http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/6/13/191849/698 may also be of interest, though it does not address the historical role of Pepper.

Frank Warmerdam June 15, 2004

Contents 1 the chemical responsible for the spiciness 2 Interesting link 3 Maybe there should be a mention of Rose (pink) Pepper as well? 4 Pictures wanted 5 Native to Sri Lanka? 6 Taste 7 Awkward language? 8 Inconsistency in Brazil's production/export of pepper 9 Dates 10 Electron Micrograph of Peppercorn 11 Berry or Drupe? 12 History of the Pepper Mill? 13 Health Benefits 14 Trade route image 15 Red Pepper 16 Question 17 Black Pepper's coloring 18 Tellicherry Peppercorn citations 19 "Black pepper is the most common"

[edit] the chemical responsible for the spiciness

It's not capsaicin that's responsible for the spiciness of black pepper, is it? Does anyone know what chemical is responsible?

No, if it were capsaicin then pepper would be firy hot, but it's peppery hot. I'd love to know, though.

The primary ingredient of true pepper (piper nigrum) is piperine, a volatile oil.

[edit] Interesting link

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Pipe_nig.html

This may be a very useful site.

From the sources at the museum that I volunteer at pepper originally comes from Sri Lanka and S. India. (We do an interchange game and pepper is one of the food products we talk about.)

[edit] Maybe there should be a mention of Rose (pink) Pepper as well?

Since the taste and shape are kind of similar. Similarities notwithstanding rose pepper is actually dried berries from another genus (some kind of rose bush).

There's some information here:

http://www.pepper-passion.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=45

[edit] Pictures wanted

If anybody could supply some close-up pictures of peppercorns, black, white or green, I'd be thankful. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I got this picture for you. Black, white and green altogether. That was fast, no? :-)

--BorgQueen 19:26, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I should have thought to check the foreign pages... I cropped and flipped the image as well. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:59, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Native to Sri Lanka?

I just changed [1] a sentence in the lead from

Black pepper is native to southern India and to Sri Lanka, and is extensively cultivated there and elsewhere in tropical regions.

to

Black pepper is native to southern India and is extensively cultivated there and elsewhere in tropical regions.

My research hasn't shown much support for piper nigrum being native to Sri Lanka. Any solid references that say otherwise are welcome. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:18, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Taste

I've read that pepper has no actual "taste" at all, that it merely has an aroma and iritates the tongue, leading to a "semblence" of flavor. Any truth to this? 70.20.178.36 23:35, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Where'd you read that? It's a credible claim, I think, if you define taste to strictly mean the old-fashioned sweet / salty / sour / bitter / and-maybe-umami "tastes". The "heat" of capsaicin and piperine might not be called a taste under that view; it's a matter of semantics. And of course odors contribute enormously to the sensation of taste. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:45, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward language?

...often alongside its frequent companion, table salt. A little redundant?--Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 01:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistency in Brazil's production/export of pepper

The article states that Brazil produced 35,000 tons of black pepper in 2003. It then states that Brazil exported 37,940 tons of black pepper in 2003. Is there a typographical error, or some other explanation about how Brazil could export more pepper than it produces?

It produced much more the previous year, and exported some of that. TimBentley 03:35, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dates

Please, I think they should be in BC AD to match most other wiki articles Lofty

See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers): "Both the BCE/CE era names and the BC/AD era names are acceptable, but be consistent within an article." Convention, in cases when one style or another is acceptable, is to leave it in the style the original author used. That's me, as far as all the sections with dates go. I prefer BCE/CE. Thanks. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Electron Micrograph of Peppercorn

An Electron Micrograph of a Peppercorn is available here. I am not sure what license the author has placed on it though.

You could ask: http://www.ulsop.ac.uk/depts/pharmacology/McCarthy/McCarthyBiogSet.htm --Curtis Clark 05:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)..

[edit] Berry or Drupe?

The article makes extensive use of the term "berry" after stating that the pepper fruit is a drupe. I recommend that the term "berry" be replaced with "fruit" or that a sentence should be added describing that the term berry is used in its general, not botanical, sense. dpotter 14:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Pepper Mill?

Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew the origin of the pepper mill/grinder as we know it today. I am guessing that the mortar and pestle was originally used, but who or where did the mill mechanism come from? THank you for your help!!! Andrea Ludden

Good question, and not one that I found very good answers for while researching this article. As it says, pepper mills and other spice grinders were in use by the 14th century in Europe, and, yes, the mortar and pestle was the original tool and remained the most common for a good while after that. I remember reading somewhere that coffee mill technology preceded spice mills, or some style of spice mills, but I don't have the source at hand right now. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

THank you for the lead. Now how about the history of the salt & pepper shaker? I found "salt shaker" but i'm going more for the concept of the pair. Thanks again for the help.... - Andrea Cobblyknob 05:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm even worse off there; whatever online research I tried to do on the topic immediately ran into nothing but books and information on their value as collectibles, with no real history. I'd love to know if you or anybody else is able to dig up anything good. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:21, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Most sources seem to credit Peugeot with inventing the first purpose-built pepper mill in the middle of the 19th century.

[edit] Health Benefits

I think that the part talking about pepper being used as a medicine may need some updating. According to this page,

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=74

Pepper can indeed be used for some treatments such as indigestion, constipation, and diarrhea.

[edit] Trade route image

I had some trouble comprehending the trade route diagram when I first saw it - I couldn't figure out at first that the gray represented the land. (This is an example of figure-ground confusion - see Figure-ground in map design.) I made a quick update to the map that replaces the gray with tan. Someone more capable with image editing might be able to touch this up a little more, but does this seem like an improvement? Twinxor t 18:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The tan looks nice to me; but I'm a bit color-blind, so that doesn't mean much ;-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I've had the same problem with the map; I would say gray, especially the light gray is a bit odd choice for the land. Tan is definitely better, although if the map had names for the land and the sea (India, Egypt, Red Sea, etc) it would be even more helpful. --BorgQueen 19:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it looks splendid. —Eternal Equinox | talk 01:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Pepper

Why is there no mention of Red Pepper?. Not to be confused with Pink Pepper, Red Peppercorns are made using the Green Peppercorn Method on ripe peppercorns. Comments would be appreciated. - 16:23, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the idea. It's in there now. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanx. - 14:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Most people have never heard of red peppercorns because they are so hard to find. They are simply unavailable in the USA and rare eveyehere else.

[edit] Question

"Major producers include Vietnam (85,000 long tons in 2003), Indonesia (67,000 tons), India (65,000 tons), Brazil (35,000 tons), Malaysia (22,000 tons), Sri Lanka (12,750 tons), Thailand, and China. Vietnam dominates the export market, using almost none of its production domestically. In 2003, Vietnam exported 82,000 tons of pepper, Indonesia 57,000 tons, Brazil 37,940 tons, Malaysia 18,500 tons, and India 17,200 tons.[24]" - Brazil exported more than they created? Is this accurate? or were they merchanting..?

I'm pretty sure I was bothered by that before, and double-checked the numbers from the sources, and they still said that, and I decided that Brazil must have exported at least some from the previous crop year, which may have had a bigger harvest. It makes sense for a dried commododity like this, I suppose, that a signicicant portion of the yearly exports may be from the previous year's production. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black Pepper's coloring

I once read that mold on the outer layer of the pepper "berry" is what makes black pepper "black". Is there any truth to this?

I came across nothing that would indicate that's true in all my research. The pericarp turns black during drying, with the help of enzymes and maybe some microbial fermentation, but not mold. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Unrelated to the colour of black pepper, the outer "black" part of the peppercorn contains phytochemicals that give black pepper a warm, round flavour

[edit] Tellicherry Peppercorn citations

I don't know how to do a citation, so if someone wants to add the following citations for the Tellicherry notation I made, please do: http://www.barbecue-store.com/tellicherrypepper-18oz.htm http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeyspeppercorns.html http://www.healthyheartmarket.com/browseproducts/Peppercorns;Black-Tellicherry-Whole.html I'm sure there are more. Tina Brooks 21:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I added the Penzey's one, thank you! (Bear in mind, though, that the little bits of information commercial sites like those give out aren't always the most reliable: try to find book or scholarly sources.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Black pepper is the most common"

Sorry, but that phrase is POV-ish. In what context is black pepper more common than white? In swedish cuisine it certainly isn't, by far.... TERdON 03:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it. Can you point to a reference for Swedish usage? At one point in writing this article, I was under the impression that white pepper was more common than black across much of Europe. (Black is unquestionably dominant in the US.) Someone else (I forget where this discussion occurred) assured me this was *not* the case. I deferred to them. I'd love to see a good source answering the question, either way, on a regional basis. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't question the claim in general (I suppose it's correct on a global basis, but of course, then it should be referenced properly), all I wanted was the context added. In the contexts you're proposing it's probably quite correct as well, as AFAIK mediterranean cuisine uses it exclusively, however that doesn't make it a globally true fact. Even though I don't really have a printed reference (I am a Swede, and I have quite some experience of cooking husmanskost, I can't actually think of a single traditional Swedish dish with blackpepper nor a printed reference to claim it with - lots of dishes with whitepepper and a few with allspice but none with blackpepper). I don't actually know how local this "inverted usage pattern" is. It could be local to Swedish cuisine, or Scandinavian, or northern European - German, British, and possibly even more... Also, actual usage in Sweden (as opposed to in traditional dishes) may be quite large anyway, as there is a lot of foreign cuisine used in Sweden. TERdON 05:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

After further thinking, janssons frestelse normally contains black pepper, and so does makaronipudding. But still I doubt the claim holds for Swedish cuisine, as they are the only exceptions I can think of. TERdON 06:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Most knowledgeable spice vendors recognize that White pepper is more popular in Europe. This is particularly true in the Northern lattitudes. The reverse is true in the USA, where Black Pepper predominates. Some claim the ratio is 10:1.