Talk:Biodynamic agriculture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hi everyone. I am not an expert on biodynamics. I studied up on this while studying organic farming in general. I think both the philosophy and the practice is rather interesting and deserves a good NPOV treatment here.
I have seen some jostling since I expanded this page with actual details of a biodynamic compost pile. Please feel free to record your comments here as this article progresses. Thanks.
- I guess it depends on how you define NPOV. I think generally Steiner's teachings are considered somewhat lunatic fringe, and I'd be inclined to think that biodynamic farming has about as much to do with organic farming as alchemy does to chemistry. My take on NPOV in this case would be to say that it should be evaluated from a more or less scientific standpoint -- that way it can be discussed in terms of what's observable in its claims and effects. After all, gardening/farming is more or less a scientific pursuit when you get right down to it -- evaluate it on those terms. Haikupoet 04:54, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
-
- I quite agree. But: (1) NPOV requires that the author explain the phenomenon as is, and then apply the discriminatory language - like "Fascism attempted to unify the national will and resources of a nation behind a militant leader. Most historians believe that Fascism was a self-destructive and extremely dangerous political ideology." I think the article as is just barely holds on to this precept. (2) Yes, the line between science and pseudoscience should be noted, but pseudoscience is a reasonable subject of interest. Historically, alchemy did contribute to chemistry, but doesn't anymore. Steiner promoted organic before more scientific proponents in a similar way.
-
- By the way, my real frustration is that my reference to preparations involving ox horns and deer bladders, which Steiner most definitely suggested, was mollified into a vague reference to eastern medicine. What's that about? It's like saying that the Catholic rite of communion relates to Egyptian resurrection stories, rather than saying it involves a cup of wine and little wafers of bread! User:KTyson
An organic farmer is not only no chemicals etc. He is taking care of the aerth on which the crop grows. If the dirt is very good, by way of composted materials inserted, the crop wil and is very much more immune for sicknesses. Also the cattle which grow upon wellcared grassland, has a very high resistance against sicknesses. The cattle hardly is crippled and pregnances are more likely. Steiner adds to this some mystical matters, although I must say, that some of them are very usefull. Likle tea from nettles. If you want to know more, plse contact me on vogelpoelarius@hotmail.com
- the new version is much better, more detailed and balanced, thanks. Justinc 09:19, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] Removed text
The folliowing text was removed from the page, since it was too much of argument, personal opinions and story-telling rather than encyclopedic. Parts of it may be reused, please feel free to do so if suited.
[edit] Biodynamic farming compared to organic farming
A biodynamic farmer differentiates between biodynamic and organic farming is as follows:
- "An organic farmer grows his products by taking care of the soil, he grows his crop in. By taking care of the soil, the crop will have a tremendous increase of immunity against viral and bacterial diseases. Therefore he doesn't need all kinds of chemicals. He uses however several 'tea's' For example a tea from nettle, and composted material. He therefore has most often some horses, cows or pigs. A biodynamical farmer does the same, but adds some technics, which mostly have to do with the way composted material is treated. Also moon phases is used. This is actually that you sow, plow etc. at specific lunar phases. I myself have conducted an experiment. I took some sunflower seeds and sowed them during the 'leave'phase of the moon. Then some other seeds sowed during the 'flower'phase' Then some sowed during the soil phase of the moon. phase, . The plants sowed during leave phase sowed a reenmarkable amount of leaves, the flower phase produced huge flowers. The plants sowed during soil phase, produced a huge mass of roots. There are several other technics they use, which goes too far in detail.
Two principles typical of Steiner's biodynamic theory have to do with composting and moon phases. As prescribed by Steiner, these principles go far beyond the usual attention paid to such factors by pre-modern agriculturists and their modern counterparts in the organic movement.
For example, Steiner suggested that the precise composition, position, shape, and handling of compost piles made up of cow manure and plant trimmings was critical to making it truly biodynamic.
He further suggested that the beneficial organic matter and humus produced in the resulting composts would be greatly enhanced by specific additions of homeopathic doses of special "preparations" often made in ways reminiscent of Aryvedic or Chinese medicine. The reason for such additions apparently has to do with subtle forces creating balance and harmony in the natural world akin to enhancing the immunological functions of the human body with homeopathic or naturopathic approaches.
Practitioners who have the patience to follow Steiner's detailed instructions have claimed significant results.
Biodynamics, as well as biological farming, are increasingly well known on the basis of its application to viticulture (grape growing) and to the production of biodynamic wine.
Both methods produce a healthy series of products, from vegetables to meat. It a proven fact ( see Wageningen Univerity, Holland) that the products from the 'regular 'farming, are far from healthy. For example all cabbages, salad, spinach and the like are gathering heavy metals, which are stored in your tissues. Also the way this farmer treats his dung in such a manner, theat sicknesses increasingly are originating from that dung.
[edit] odic force
i removed a sentence about and link to odic force. i can see no connection to biodynamics and think it makes things sound more obscure than they are anyway.--trueblood 11:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Homeopathic Preparations
- There is a section describing homeopathic doses for the preparations. I would like to ask that person to quote their source from the prevailing biodynamic literature for this entry. I have not seen this verified in the literature. The material I have received from Josephine Porter Institute (JPI) which produces the biodynamic preparations in the U.S., does not represent what is presented in this section.
Other text seems to indicate that this approach is applicable in New Zealand. That is only one of dozens of countries which practice biodynamics. The text as written gives the wrong impression as to this practice. I do not know if this is someone's original research or not - if so, it may not be appropriate under the rules of Wiki. It certainly doesn't seem to be able to be verified through the international biodynamic movement. Jean Yeager 21:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
i was thought of them homeopathic, since very little matter is used, but i agree with you, this section is misleading (i did not write it) and why not use biodynamic literature for this. it should be changed. trueblood 16:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
i deleted the passsage:
[edit] Homeopathic preparations
The standard preparations 500-507 are added at a rate of 1 part preparation to 9 parts distilled water for an X (or D) potency or 1 part preparation to 99 parts distilled water for a C potency. They are succussed according to standard homeopathic practices. According to practitioners, this has the effect of transferring the energetic patterns from the preparations into the distilled water. The first step is called the mother tincture and 1 part of the mother tincture is added to 9 or 99 parts distilled water and successed to create a 1X or 1C dilution. Repeat again and it becomes a 2X or 2C dilution. The process is repeated as many times as necessary in order to create an appropriate dilution (ie. 30C). The correct dilution is up to the experience and intuition of the farmer just as it is up to the homeopathic doctor to give his patients the right dilution of medicine to treat them [citation needed].
this is not part of standard biodynamic farming. the preparations are already discussed in the sections field and compost preparations trueblood 21:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Biodynamic certifying organizations
CURRENTLY THE TEXT READS: Other certifying organisations exist; in the USA this has led to the BDA (Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Association, Inc.) who are responsible for the Demeter system in the U.S. and for the trademarked term biodynamic.
The term Biodynamic(R) is a trademarked term which can only be granted when farms/gardens are certified by the Demeter association Int'l or its designee. Since this trademark is international, how could other certifying organizations can exist for Biodynamic(r) agriculture? If they do exist, then please provide specifics. Otherwise, this is not verifiable and the text removed or re-written. Jean Yeager 22:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] recent additions history and sceptical view
i object to a some of these changes:
- the section biodynamics and the environmental movement adds in my opinion nothing notable to this article and even fails to actually show a general connection between biodynamics and environmental movement.
- the section sceptical view is about criticism, as the name leads one to think, don't overload it with praise. also science is the name of a well respected scientific magazine, the way it is written now one might think, science is quoted. calling pfeiffer a noted soil scientist is misleading. i don't think ehrenfried pfeiffer is known outside the biodynamic movement.
- i prefer all the preperation related sections coming after the introduction, because they really are central to biodynamics.
trueblood 16:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Dr. Ehrenfried E. Pfeiffer
Dear Trueblood,
I suggest you take a look at:
http://rotheraine.com/golden_garbage.html (Which is a reprint of an article from Colliers magazine, May 31, 1952.
It is a great biography of Dr. E.E. Pfeiffer and gives you some idea about how well Pfeiffer was known outside of the world of Biodynamics during his time.
Perhaps this also gives you more information about how B-D was connected with the environmental movement during the early days?
What could be more environmentally conscious (and quite ahead of its time) than composting Oakland's municipal waste in the 1950's? The Collier's article was complete with photographs.
Jwyeager
i am sorry, but this article does nothing of the sort to me. in fact it mostly tells me that he tried to compost oklands municipal waste in the 50's and i knew that already. trueblood 20:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
In the 1930's, Steiner sent Dr. Ehrenfried Pfeiffer (1899 - 1961) to the U.S.. Shortly after his arrival, the Biodynamic Farming & Gardening Association, Inc. and the Pfeiffer Center were formed. Pfeiffer supported the organic agriculture movement in the U.S.
i deleted this, not to be nasty but because it is inaccurate. steiner died in 25, according to your link pfeiffer arrived in 1940 in the us to escape the nazis (unclear what they wanted from him though) and the Biodynamic Farming & Gardening Association was formed according to wikipedia in 38, two years before pfeiffer arrived. trueblood 12:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] references
i have started to move the references out off the article to have them listed in the section references, but it is still work in process.trueblood 09:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] biodynamics is organics
bd farming is an organic system, this not just a claim of somebody but a fact, if you are bd you are certified organic. trueblood 17:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Difference between 'normal' Organic and Biodynamic
I have added the title 'difference between organic and biodynamic' because often people ask this question first 'What is the difference'. Lkleinjans 10:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
