Talk:Bingo

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Contents

[edit] Overview:

An attempt at an objective overview of the arguments so far. Please see discussion and edit the overview if necessary. Madeinsane 00:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] For the merger:

  • There is a lot of similar content in the articles on Bingo (US) and Housie.
  • The variants of Bingo (UK)/Housie, Bingo (US) share some very key features which distinguish them from other forms of gaming, for example: a grid, a caller, and some basic rules.
  • Players usually gather in a large room to play.
  • I agree with the previous comments. Therefore, having the two items in the same section make a lot of sence.--DLoveTheThird 15:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Against the merger:

  • Game play is somewhat different in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, for example:
    • 5x3 number grid
    • Numbers are called in a slightly different way. In the UK, nicknames are common in certain venues.
  • It is important to avoid regional bias. The two articles use region-specific vocab (eg. card - US term) and game rules (mostly relating to ticket form).

[edit] Suggested solutions:

Either:
(a) To merge Bingo (US) and Housie and place the new article at the location, Bingo, as a primary article; or,
(b) To create a new article and place it at the location, Bingo with a summary of the common features of the variants and links to the two articles; or,
(c) To accept the ambiguity of the term and keep the disambiguation page and regional variants separated. The disambiguation page would, in accordance with Wiki guidelines concerning ambiguities, be moved to the location, Bingo.

Please see main discussion.

[edit] Merging BINGO discussion

It's suggested that BINGO be merged here. See Talk:BINGO for discussion. Elf | Talk 17:54, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inbound Links

The many pages that link to bingo as a game should either link to the Category:Bingo page or one of the specific bingo pages, like Bingo (US) or Housie, where appropriate. Linking to the disambiguation page will be confusing. (i.e. The Keno page links to the disambiguation to show a similarity to bingo, but this page just links right back to keno. Nothing is learnt.) -- FeldBum 03:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Bingo (disambiguation) → Bingo … Rationale: We should not redirect to the dab. … Please share your opinion at Talk:Bingo (disambiguation). Vegaswikian 17:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Oppose - Bingo refers to many things. It would be better to correct links to specific types of bingo to the correct pages, as I have done, intsead of removing the disambiguation page. FeldBum 20:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I think you missed the point. Bingo should either be the dab page or it should be the entry for the most common use. My own vote below. ~ trialsanderrors 20:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The proposal is to keep the dab page but move it to Bingo which is now a redirect. The dab page will remain but at the correct title. Vegaswikian 20:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
So the bingo dab page will just be renamed "bingo"? If so, then I do support. If "bingo" goes directly to Bingo (US), as it used to, then I oppose. FeldBum 22:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Bingo is most commonly known as the lottery game. The bingo entry should contain a summary for the fundamentals of the game and offer links to local variants (Bingo (US), Housie, Loteria, etc.) ~ trialsanderrors 20:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Unless I'm misunderstanding this I see no reason "Bingo" should redirect to "Bingo (disambiguation)", so just delete/redirect the disambiguation page to "Bingo". 2005 21:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Neutral I support the first proposal laid out below. If, however, this is not supported then the logical option is to move this disambiguation page to Bingo, for consistency etc. But to be fair guys, it's just a name. Madeinsane 19:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose — Bingo, although American specific, is played with specific rules and — although similar in concept — is a different game than other chance games using numbers elsewhere in the world. A brief mention of those differences (with links) can easily be incorporated into the articles for Bingo and the other number-based chance game articles (e.g., Housie). [[Briguy52748 13:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)]]

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments
  • Bingo is most commonly known as the lottery game.
    • That's a regional perspective. That's why the dab page should be at Bingo and not an article. The dab makes this all clear and does not flavor anything with a regional perspective. Having the redirect there would be better then replacing with any kind of an article that is not a dab. Vegaswikian 20:54, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Explain "regional perspective". ~ trialsanderrors 21:03, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
        • Simple. Bingo is a game played with balls that are used to call out numbers that you mark on a card. Get 5 in a row and you win. Until I looked at the dab article I did not know there were other uses. So, my perspective is regional (US) and yours is also for another region. That's why the dab should be located at Bingo. Vegaswikian 21:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
          • So we seem to agree that the game is the most common use for the term Bingo. Is there an English-speaking region where Bingo predominantly means something else? ~ trialsanderrors 21:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't see much to discuss about the proposal. User:Trialsanderrors all that is being suggested is to put the content on the Bingo URL instead of the Bing (disambiguation) URL which it redirects to now. Tweaking the content of said page is a different discussion, but Bingo is a common term that should be on the correct URL where it would be looked for. 2005 21:14, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I understand that. I oppose it because Bingo should be an entry that highlights the commonalities of the regional variants of the game. It should contain a dab header to Bingo {disambiguation), which should be left as it is. ~ trialsanderrors 21:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
If there are multiple variation articles, then the link should be a dab page so that the user can select the correct article and not find an article that is not the one being looked for. I see no reason why an article like Bingo variations could not exist to explain the differences between the various forms of the ball game or the lottery game. Vegaswikian 21:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
No it shouldn't. If the variances are minor (as they are) it is not readily apparent to a reader which entry leads to which variant of the game, and a simple dab page can't provide those details. It's also redundant to re-tell the core of the rules on each separate regional page. Hence the need for a central summary article which is best located at Bingo. ~ trialsanderrors 21:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
If the differences are minor, then why do we need different articles? Vegaswikian 22:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't know. I didn't start the fragmentization. ~ trialsanderrors 22:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like the proposal from 2005 below could be the correct way to go since the game is the most likely usage of the word on its own. Vegaswikian 22:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Move Bingo (US) (what an terribly ethnocentric name) to Bingo (game). - GilliamJF 08:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

To make clear what I mean, I propose the following entry:

Bingo

The article is about the game of chance. For other uses, see Bingo (disambiguation)

Bingo is a popular game of chance played under slightly different rules in the US and the UK. In OZ and NZ, the UK version is played under the name Housie. Bingo is also closely related to other games played worldwide, such as Loteria in MX.

Then Rules section, then US Bingo section, then UK Bingo/Housie section, then Other Variants section, all with "Main article" headers where applicable. This solves a lot of the fragmentization and redundancy that's going on right now. ~ trialsanderrors 21:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

That certainly could be fine too, but... *are* there common rules? I mean, don't Bingo/US and Housie have different rules? (I don't know). I'd be glad to see an example of what you suggest: a smallish Bingo article that points to other bingo articles and links to the disambig page for the dog/song, etc. However I'm not sure it could be pulled off since if you start talking about rules you might as well just put the Bingo US article on Bingo and link to Housie and other things from it. 2005 21:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
From all I can tell they only differ in grid size and some calling routines. We could certainly move Bingo (US) to Bingo, but we'd have to generalize the summary and include a US Rules section. ~ trialsanderrors 22:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd go ahead with that, make Bingo the main article on all Bingo variants and keep the dab page here with an {{otheruses}} tag on the top of Bingo. —Nightstallion (?) 11:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I support first proposal set down by Trialsanderrors (A small generic article linking to the disambiguation page and the various types of bingo and related games). A lot can be said about the culture, economics, history etc. of bingo in the UK, and I am therefore for a separate article. It is not just the game itself, but the phenomenon surrounding the game which is my reason for wanting to keep the UK Bingo/Housie separate from the US game. I'm against Bingo US being the main article, as Bingo UK/Housie has just as much reason to be so. I realise this discussion took place over 6 months ago but, in any case, no action has yet been taken. Madeinsane 19:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging Bingo (US) and Housie

As no action has yet been taken, and no exact consensus has been reached, I have drawn the attention of users participating in similar talks on Talk:Housie and Talk:Bingo (US)to this, more central, discusson, and put relevant banners on the pages. For clarity, there is an overview of the argument at the top of this page. Madeinsane 00:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion:

I would argue that, in the UK in particular, something more significant than differences in game play, is that bingo has developed into a common passtime with a national identity, glamourised by a change in marketing strategy and popularised by comedians (such as in, That Peter Kay Thing, Eyes Down) and as such could be discussed as a cultural phenomenon not relevant to any other part of the world. Some of the content already conatained in the Housie article, such as the business aspect section is also relevant to this modern phenomenon, and should not be included in any generic article. Some other cultural aspects such as calling nicknames, but particularly their usage and the trivia section are also particularly relevant to this modern phenomenon.

My suggested solution therefore is closest to option (a) above:

Introduction basic rules with no regional bias using neutral voabulary

History of the game (a similar game existed in Roman times),
Regional variations:

  • Bingo in the US - Grid shape, winning combinations, terminology etc.
  • Bingo in the UK - Grid shape, winning combinations, terminology etc.
  • Housie in Australia and New Zealand - Same grid as UK, terminology etc.

There would be no additional articles unless they could be justified for reasons such as those I have argued above in the case of the UK.
Madeinsane 23:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The considerations listed in the first para of this section seem to me to imply that there should be separate articles for the regional variants. The games are quite different, the atmosphere in the halls is different, the terms are different. Furthermore, the original omnibus article got confusing, as the subject switched back and forth repeatedly from US-style bingo to UK-style. John FitzGerald 01:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the original generic article was confusing, but the current layout with two articles linked from a disambiguation page could be very off-putting for users who are unfamiliar with basic game rules, let alone regional differences. The problem is that the games do have a lot in common in terms of their shared histories and basic rules (see overview above for examples); and the amount of content repeated over the two articles only serves to emphasise this point. Also in one club I worked in in the UK, we played "American Bingo", with a 5x5 ticket, in addition to the ordinary 3x15 ticket. The biggest differences are therefore not in game play, so a generic article could more effectively highlight these differences and similarities. If a separate article is needed to explain atmosphere etc, then this could be developed later, if there is enough content. Madeinsane 14:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

As there hasn't been much objection over the issue this time round I'm going to go ahead with the merger of the two pages as I explained above. Madeinsane 06:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] US bingo versus UK bingo

I was pointed towards your article about bingo by the BBC and would like to let you know that UK bingo has very different antecedent to the US game. As one of your corespondents noted bingo in the UK has a particular and significant cultural aspects that the commercial game has not destroyed in the way that has occurred in the US. The British game also has a long history and is part of a continuing tradition of random numbers games played by the British, especially by working class women. I think what would be best is an article on bingo that had a separate section on the history and culture of British bingo.Carolyn Downs 12:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Leave as is!

The whole shebang is fairly static and will hardly ever require any serius updates. It is not that yankee bingo and pommie bingo require frequent work, which could be halve by amalgamation.

I have just used it and was happy with it just the way it is. No mental work needed for sorting out terms and abberations, etc.. Just simply reading the article and getting the idea.

Don't waste any energy here - look for typos if need be. Wikipedia has tons of them to offer ;) Shout out loudly "Bingo!" once you have found one. Oalexander-En 15:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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