Talk:Bill Lawrence (trademark)
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[edit] Removal of content by Just Me Too on September 12, 2006
My following additions: "Corrections Part 2" , "Yes, that is exactly what Jzchak Wajcman is saying", and "What is ridiculous?" were my responses to "Just Me Too". He removed his information and altered the article here on September 12, 2006, in case you are wondering.--Becky Lawrence 18:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The English Trade Name “Bill Lawrence” is the anglicized name of the Italian trade name “Billy Lorento and not of the name Willi Lawrence Stich. The trade name Bill Lawrence dose not bear a resemblance to the German family name “Stich” The anglicized name for Stich is “STING” or to fail (im Stich lassen) and not “Bill Lawrence. A legal name without a family name?
First name Bill or Willi. middle name Lawrence or Lorenz. Legal Family, none? NONE
- Please sign your name using four tildes ~~~~. Arguments based on logic have no place here. All edits must by sourced, and must have consensus. That means that everyone has to agree on them. Until we can come up with additions that are sourced and that we can all agree on, the minimal text should remain. Please propose some language that you think we can all agree on. As we say at Wikipedia, "write for the enemy." -Will Beback 09:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
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- The Statement above is not based on logic it is based on two different sources that agreed with each other.
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- Source #1 Willi Stich's interview on September 1979 in the Guitar Player Magazine..
- Stich said: “In 1965 Bill started his own pickup company in Germany. Since Framus owned his professional name, Billy Lorento. Bill changed his name to Bill Lawrence”.
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- Source #2 [1]“Willi Stich, the musician who had walked into my club, was performing under the name Billy Lorento, but actually Fred Wilfer owned that name the owner of Framus Guitar Company in Nuremberg. After going over a list of possibilities, we decided to convert the Italian sounding name “Billy Lorento” into the English name “Bill Lawrence” And that was the birthday of “Bill Lawrence Pickups.” —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BoxBox (talk • contribs) .
Few problems with the current stub. Per the court documents, the mark was registered in 1999 by Willi Stich for technical design of guitar parts. Jzchak Wajcman claims to be using the mark to do business and as a brand name for guitar and pickups. There is a dispute over who owns the mark; Jzchak claims to have bought all property and rights to the mark from a third-party in 1985 who had in turn, aquired the rights from a bank. Willi has denied all of these claims, including questioning the validity of Jzchak's claims to have a dba. The documents available online through the USPTO indicate that Jzchak's petition for cancellation (filed in 2004) is pending.
I also have a problem with the anglicized name statment -- this doesn't appear to have any bearing on the trademark other than it being on of the arguments used by Willi Stich as a claim to the mark. It should either be noted as such or removed entirely; Wikipedia doesn't take sides. .:.
Jareth.:. babelfish 15:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
All this talk about how a name should be anglicized is ludicrous. It is common for those from non-Anglo Saxon cultures to take an anglicized name as theirs, often without any relation whatsoever to their birth name, least of all translatory. Asians especially often take first names that have supposedly similar underlying meanings, while others simply take a name they like that they think makes them seem 'ordinary' in their adopted land. This is also common for international businessmen. There's no hard (or soft) rule that says you must anglicize every part of your name, or any hard conventions. Willi Lorenz Stich to William Lawrence is wholly logical, and the daily use of Bill instead of William wholly per historic (soft) convention.
I do however agree that all this talk of anglicization is of little consequence in regard to the trademark dispute. What is simply relevant is that Willi Lorenz Stich has been widely known as Bill Lawrence since the early 1960’s and is internationally famous under that name.
‘Bill’ was never part of any company name of shared ownership. The transfer of the trademark ‘Bill Lawrence’ was for a limited time. The company to which it was eventually assigned went broke.
The dispute is over whether one of the directors/majority shareholders of one of the former temporary owners of the trademark, one of whose company’s that once temporarily owned the name still exists, has legal rights to the name. However, that former owner sold the name, whether legally entitled to or not.
Once sold, trademarks don’t automatically return to their former owners when the buyers go broke. Temporarily assigned trademarks do revert to their owners.
The former owner while continuing to use the name ‘Bill Lawrence’ on his products did not properly indicate a continuing claim to that name as a trademark, by ™ing the name in usage (or formally registering it himself, despite having more than a decade to do so). He also did not formally dispute Bill’s registration of the trademark at the time, or within the five-year default period, despite being fully aware of the registration.
While the rightful legal ownership of the trademark seems pretty clear to me, it is now clearly for the US courts to decide. -NK
[edit] Corrections
1. A link to a partial copy of the September 1979 Don Menn article " What's in a name Bill Lawrence" on Bill's website - [[2]] All of Bill's quotes are in italic. The alleged quote written by BoxBox is false and designed to mislead. FYI -- Don Menn wrote a series of articles about well-known and famous people in our music scene.
2. BoxBox, posting from Jzchak Wajcman's website as a source, is using hearsay to back up his claims.
3. Here is a link to the board's June 19, 2006 statement to read the board's ruling - [[3]]--Becky Lawrence 16:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Corrections Part 2
Kevin, We do have the GP article. The statement labeled by BoxBox as a "quote by Stich" is false. All quotes by Bill are in italic. The rest of the article is written by Don Menn.
Anyway, US trademarks are only concerned about first use in the US and not Germany.
But Germany is interesting to reveal some of the Wajcman "Inaccuracies" --See the cover of Lawrence ElectroSound brochure on Wajcman's website and clearly printed on the cover is the "Lawrence" trademark, highlighting "Lawrence Electrosound Pickups" as the product name ------NOT "Bill Lawrence Pickups" as Wajcman writes and advertises! [[4]]
Bill has the Lawrence Electrosound brochure in his possession and the only place where the name Bill Lawrence is written in it is to identify the guitarist/endorser/designer "Bill Lawrence" with Bill's picture and described as a famous musician known for his tremendous sound on stage. --Becky Lawrence 22:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Yes, that is exactly what Jzchak Wajcman is falsely saying
....and what he has falsely written and what he has falsely published over the past five years. Here is some evidence simply reprinted verbatim from his own website[[5]] [[6]]
The first Bill Lawrence Pickup made 1965
And that was the birthday of “Bill Lawrence Pickups.”
Bill Lawrence Catalog cover, printed 1965
We felt it is time to introduce the Bill Lawrence pickups in the US.
1965. Wajcman and Stich started the original Bill Lawrence Guitar Pickup Company (Lawrence Electrosound) it was the first Company ever to manufacture Bill Lawrence Pickups
--Becky Lawrence 22:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Quoting from Willi Stich's intervew 1979 GP: Quote: “In 1965 Bill started his own pickup company in Germany. Since Framus owned his professional name Billy Lorento. Bill changed his name to Bill Lawrence and called his company Lawrence Electrosounds”
The company Lawrence Electrosounds made the first product in 1965 named Bill Lawrence Guitar Pickups. The same way Framus company made a product named Billy Lorento Guitar. The birthday of a product is the day it was first made. The “Bill Lawrence Pickups.” was firs made in 1965
[edit] Responding to the unsigned message posted under my signature
There was no "Willi Stich" article written by Don Menn. Don Menn wrote an article about legendary and internationally known designer "Bill Lawrence". To write "Willi Stich" interview is false and designed to mislead.
Evidence clearly proves that Lawrence Electrosound offered "Lawrence Pickups" NEVER "Bill Lawrence Pickups". Even if you keep saying and writing false statements over and over doesn't make it turn into a fact. --Becky Lawrence 18:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What is ridiculous?
Refresh your information source's memory that there were "three" original owners of the German company. History in the music industry proves who was the brains behind Lawrence Electrosounds -- Bill Lawrence. A nightclub owner, Jzchak Wajcman, wasn't capable of it.
Kevin Wells used to have the guts to write under his own name, but today, hides behind various shill names on the Internet to help spread Jzchak Wajcman's false and misleading information. --Becky Lawrence 17:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
