Talk:Bill Ham

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[edit] Notability

If you read the biographies of Bill Ham provided, you'll see that he played a major role in the creation and organization of ZZ Top. Furthermore, ZZ Top is (on the off change you weren't aware) very famous, so it makes more sense for people related to them to have articles than for a band whose own notability was marginal. You're really barking up the wrong tree when you worry about the notability of this guy; I can't even see why he'd be a borderline case. -- SCZenz 18:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

This person may not meet the criteria of WP:BAND or WP:BIO. While he is associated with a notable band, it's not at all clear that that's good enough. In the corporate world, this job would be equivalent to being a former brand manager for a national brand, such as, say, an executive vice president at Gilette in charge of Right Guard. Wikipedia doesn't usually consider that notable.

WP:BAND is for performers. "Constructing the band's image" doesn't qualify. Going down the list in WP:BIO, he doesn't seem to meet any of the qualifications.

Ham deserves a mention in the ZZ Top article, but doesn't rate a standalone article. --John Nagle 19:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

You misunderstand the role of notability guidelines; WP:BIO has examples of notable people, not an exhaustive list of every reason someone might be notable enough. He isn't just "with the band," he's played a key role in it and (according to our article) he has some notable side projects as well. This guy is verifiable and has a clear claim to fame; there's no purpose to reducing his biography and stuffing it into ZZ Top when it could be expanded. -- SCZenz 19:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

You also might do a little google searching, and note that he's wrtten a bunch of ZZ Top's songs. You could AfD the article, just as an opportunity to gauge consensus, but I honestly think you'd embarass yourself. -- SCZenz 19:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

There are people with whom you have to refer to notability guidelines, and there are people who are just famous. Paris Hilton is famous for absolutely nothing apart from being a waste of public effort, but shes still famous and thus deserves an article. This guy is just famous, I have heard of him, and I am just some layman who knows three ZZ Top songs and has a moderate interest in pop music. Guidelines are only guidelines. Jdcooper 20:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

It seems a bit over the top to make analogies to George Martin and the Beatles. If you are quoting a review say that and cite the source, otherwise this seems to have an overly favorable bias for an encyclopedia article. Also, it would be nice to have some sort of discography of works that he produced? What was the title of his own recording for Dot Records? -MrFizyx 21:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Given the level of credit given to Ham in the Bill Ham article, it might be appropriate to revise the ZZ Top article to begin "ZZ Top was a band created by manager Bill Ham, who hired musicians Billy Gibbons (vocals and guitar), Dusty Hill (bass guitar and vocals), and Frank Beard (drums), then built them into a world-famous group." But that would be pushing it. --John Nagle 21:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added a link to his all music guide entry. Anyone wanting to do a serious job here might start there. Looks like he has produced records for Clint Black, Dwight Yokam, and even a soundtrack for a teenage mutant ninja turtles movie (go figure). He appears to have songwriting credits as well. This would be a much better article if editors stick to the facts. I just lack the personal interest or the ZZ Top record collection that is needed here. -MrFizyx 15:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)