Talk:Bill Britt
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[edit] Britt and BWW
I suggest to have the same page for Bill Britt and and Britt World Wide. The title of the article then needs to be decided, and the material accordingly organized. I suggest that the title be Britt World Wide. -- Knverma 18:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] PostMa Memo
This can be found here but should copied to WikiSource and linked to there rather than directly. I believe it is now public domain.--Insider201283 15:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, several sites mirror it. I don't know if there is some consensus here regarding which sources to copy files from. Also I know nothing yet of WikiSource, I will check. If you are sure of all this and have some time then go ahead. -- Knverma 15:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] AMO terminology
AMO or IBO organization: I don't have much preferences about the terminology. I clarify that they provide training also besides motivation. If these organizations don't like the terminology AMO then it can be avoided, although it is used commonly and I saw it also on the Amway pages. -- Knverma 16:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
- Amway uses the terms LOA "IBO Organizations" and "professional development programs". I'm unaware of anytime they've used it in an offical capacity. They may have used it in a response to a "critics" claims. I considered it a somewhat ignorant, misleading, and even pejorative POV term, it shouldn't be used. --Insider201283 17:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Do we have sources for the official terminology, or are we just expressing our own preferences? -Will Beback · † · 22:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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- IBOFacts site is good for those kind of questions. "IBO organization" and "PDPs" are what are referred to throughout that site. Quixtar Facts talks about Lines of Affiliation and lists the major ones involved in Quixtar - note, this doesn't mention Amway LOAs elsewhere in the world. Hard copy quixtar documents refer to LOAs and IBO Organizations. --Insider201283 23:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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- The links you gave seem specific to Quixtar. Is the terminology the same everywhere or has Quixtar developed some new terminology. Regarding terminology, first of all we should be consistent on all articles so as not to confuse readers. As sources, we can have Amway/Quixtar provided literature, as well as the terminology commonly used by everyone (for whatever reasons). Either we arbitrarily choose one of them or point to both. -- Knverma 18:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- I forgot, a third source is what terminology these organizations commonly use. All these sources have their own importance. -- Knverma 19:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- No WP:RS source that I am aware of use the term "AMO". The LOA term is global, I have both my LOA and LOS listed on my information page when I log in to Amway Australia, since they are different. The PDP term is one that is not unique to Amway/Quixtar - "Professional Development Program" is a normal business term for what the IBO organizations do. IBO Organizations is self descriptive. --Insider201283 20:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- These organizations are always difficult to talk about. The N21 site [1] does not even use the words "Amway" or "Quixtar" on its main page or on the company overview page. I saw the word "Alticor" on the press releases page, that seems all. Coming back to the question of sources, the phrase "motivation business" is repeatedly used in the PostMa Memo you mentioned above. Other than that the term 'Amway Motivational Organizations' is repeatedly used by the critics. -- Knverma 21:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- The PostMa memo was exactly that, a memo written by a staff member, and it is more than 20 years old, it has little relevance to what is acceptable and correct terminology today. The very fact the phrase is repeatedly used by critics but rarely used by supporters and not at all in any literature should tell you something - it's POV. I have no idea what your comments about the N21 website have to do with anything? --Insider201283 16:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- These organizations are always difficult to talk about. The N21 site [1] does not even use the words "Amway" or "Quixtar" on its main page or on the company overview page. I saw the word "Alticor" on the press releases page, that seems all. Coming back to the question of sources, the phrase "motivation business" is repeatedly used in the PostMa Memo you mentioned above. Other than that the term 'Amway Motivational Organizations' is repeatedly used by the critics. -- Knverma 21:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- No WP:RS source that I am aware of use the term "AMO". The LOA term is global, I have both my LOA and LOS listed on my information page when I log in to Amway Australia, since they are different. The PDP term is one that is not unique to Amway/Quixtar - "Professional Development Program" is a normal business term for what the IBO organizations do. IBO Organizations is self descriptive. --Insider201283 20:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
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My comment about N21 means that if they don't use the word "Amway" on their website then should we also say that N21 has no connection to Amway, and contest the letter "A" in the term "AMO"? PostMa memo was written by a staff member. But the famous DeVos directly speaking tapes of 1983 also talk about motivation business. So here we have Amway talking about motivation business and critics talking about motivation business, still it is POV? -- Knverma 16:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- I still don't see any relevance to N21. The DeVos directly speaking tapes are also from the early 80s. If you can provide any evidence that Amway/Quixtar/or A/Q affiliated support companies use the term "AMO" then please do so. Motivation is part of what they do, and Amway is one of the companies they work with. Product education is also something they do. Quixtar is a company they work with. Quixtar Product Education Companies thus makes as much sense as "Amway Motivational Organization". Or should we go with Quixtar Sales Training Companies? Or Amway Personal Development Organizations? Or Amway Quixtar Leadership Development Companies? Etc etc etc. The term AMO is deliberately mocking on the part of critics, used in order to imply these companies are nothing but "rah rah" organizations that offer nothing of substance to IBOs. It's not an accurate description of what they do. There is no reason at all not to use the official terms except a desire to promote this pejorative myth. --Insider201283 18:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
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- We don't have to pick one or the other. We can say something like "PDP, also known as AMO". It isn't the job of Wikipedia to enforce the name that the company prefers, we should simply reflect actual usage and more than one term is used. -Will Beback · † · 19:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- Sure, though it should also be made clear that it's a term used by critics. Is it used in any WP:RS acceptable source? Though a PDP (Professional Education Program) is something offered by an LOA (Line of Affiliation) or IBO Organization. The latter are more accurate synonyms of AMOs. --Insider201283 19:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- My ideas were similar, that AMO is a common name but is probably used more by critics, and there are some official names in A/Q literature. That can be explained, and we have already stated that they provide training besides motivation. For names and terminology, traditions are also important besides accuracy. Just as an interesting example, consider that "Amway" means "American Way" but now US only has Quixtar and Amway is present only outside US :-)
- So should we say that we now have a consensus here? -- Knverma 19:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- Not quite, depends on the wording! For example, I would suggest for example saying in the Amway Business section that he "started his own company called the Britt World Wide (BWW) to provide training and motivation to his Amway downline".--Insider201283 20:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- I have no problem with that. -- Knverma 20:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- Not quite, depends on the wording! For example, I would suggest for example saying in the Amway Business section that he "started his own company called the Britt World Wide (BWW) to provide training and motivation to his Amway downline".--Insider201283 20:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- Sure, though it should also be made clear that it's a term used by critics. Is it used in any WP:RS acceptable source? Though a PDP (Professional Education Program) is something offered by an LOA (Line of Affiliation) or IBO Organization. The latter are more accurate synonyms of AMOs. --Insider201283 19:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- We don't have to pick one or the other. We can say something like "PDP, also known as AMO". It isn't the job of Wikipedia to enforce the name that the company prefers, we should simply reflect actual usage and more than one term is used. -Will Beback · † · 19:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Misc
Hi Special:Contributions/216.54.3.147. Any justification for deleting so much material from the article? -- Knverma 14:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] amquix.info
Another editor has added links to this site. We should clarify what is the consensus in this matter. This question is relevant to all Amway related pages. -- Knverma 10:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
