Talk:Berliner Weisse
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[edit] Note
This should stay as Berliner Weisse in English wikipedia. Justinc 23:52, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Images
Here are images of the Red and Green Varieties. http://www.washjeff.edu/capl/category_list.asp?cat=sub&id=20 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.131.81.118 (talk • contribs).
[edit] Spelling
Berliner Weisse is spelled "Weisse" in German, too. If you don't believe me go and look here:
This is one of the last breweries that makes Berliner Weisse and they spell it "Weisse" on the label. The sz character ia any case NO LONGER OFFICIALLY EXISTS IN GERMAN AT ALL. It was phased out in the last spelling reform. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Patto1ro (talk • contribs).
- Well its still spelled like that on the German Wikipedia and I think its safe to assume they know how to spell there, so I think a mention is fine. pschemp | talk 09:29, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Just look and see how the brewery spells it on the label. I think we can trust them to have got the spelling right.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Patto1ro (talk • contribs).
- the brewery may just want to be different. If it isn't spelled that way in German, why does the German wikipedia do it? pschemp | talk 21:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, if you are German and would have listened at school when they tried to teach you about the "substantiviertes Adjektiv", you might know that the spelling of such a noun will follow the spelling of the adjective. So, if "weisse" is an adjective like in "die weisse Rose", as a noun it will be spelt "die Weisse", even under the "old" way of spelling (before the "Rechtschreibreform"). Don't assume that whoever has done the entry in the German Wikipedia actually has listened what he/she has been taught all these years ago at school...
19 October 2006 I thought we had already been through this discussion about the spelling of Weisse. So here is a quote from "Die Biere Deutschlands", 1988 by Dietrich Höllhuber and Wolgang Kaul in a chapter (page 340) entittled "Berlin: Berliner Weisse und jede Menge Pils" . . .. "Heute is die Berliner Weisse ein Schankbier." . . . .
It's a serious German book on beer published by Verlag Hans Carl, a brewing specia;ist. I find it hard to argue with the spelling the brewing industry itself uses.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Patto1ro (talk • contribs).
What you are missing here, is that people keep coming by and changing every single sse into ß and even moving the page to the other spelling. In order to *prevent* that, I removed all of the ß except that one, so people won't be so tempted to do that. That being said I find it hard to argue with the thousands of Germans over at de.wiki who use the ß. Why don't you go post your question over there and see what answer you get. I'd guess though that you won't like the answer. Additionally it is not good wiki etiquette to keep changing something to your version until a discussion has been closed so I'd ask that you stop doing so until a definitive answer is found. Last, please sign your comments with 4 tildes (~~~~) as that is polite wikietiquette. pschemp | talk 01:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I thought the succint explanation from my wife (a native German speaker) of why the spelling was Weisse according to the rules of German grammar had rather closed the argument. Especially as there had been no reply to it.
I will ask my wife to explain their mistake to the German site. She hates seeing incorrect spelling and grammar. 4 tildes (~~~~) 03:45, 20 October 2006 (Ourtime)
- great. let me know what they say. and you just type the tildes without any ( ) around them. You copied and pasted them and it has formatting there so it wouldn't show a signiture when I typed it. You have to type them plain. pschemp | talk 01:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The Answer
German spelling reform did change ß to ss in some cases, like after short vowels ß became ss but not in this case. If there is a diphtong before the ß, "ss" is never correct nor is it when the vowel is long. Therefore, it is correct to say that it is spelled Berliner Weiße in Germany. (Though not in Switzerland where ß is not used.) pschemp | talk 17:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
All three Berlin breweries still producing Berliner Weisse spell it "Weisse":
http://www.radeberger-gruppe.de/cms/startordner/marken/91.html http://www.berliner-buergerbraeu.de/Brauspezialitaten/Berliner-WeisseHimbeer.php http://www.schultheiss.de/produkte/mix_weisse/index.php
Surely they must be right? Patto1ro 11:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- I´m very confused. In the page from the Deutsche Brauer Bund that I added as a reference
http://www.brauer-bund.de/bierfans/sorten/berliner.htm
I notice that they use both spellings within the space of a few lines. If they can´t decide which is the correct spelling what chance have we? I´ve changed my mins and now agree that it is reasonable enough to mention the spelling Weiße. Though perhaps, given the evidence of the use of both variations in Germany, it might be more accurate to say "sometimes spelled Berliner Weiße in Germany".Patto1ro 10:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
