Talk:Beretta 92

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I started correcting some factual errors on this page (July 7 2005) and then ran across the better laid out Beretta 92F/FS page. I changed this page to a near-stub, covering just the basics of the 92's history, and the near-clone made by Taurus. scot 7 July 2005 16:02 (UTC)

I would like to thank the fools that have no idea about the history of the Beretta 92 pistols, that contribute so much to turning Wikipedia "bla-bla pedia"... if you would have looked around you would have noticed that I nearly did all the work for Beretta Pistols, reason is that I know that stuff. Thanks to those that did in fact contribute, like fixing my spelling mistakes etc. Now there is nothing left of the page that explained all about the Beretta 92.. because some fools do not know that there are a bunch of 92 varitions... which I have ALL COVERED! User:Meswiss

Please consider putting a "see talk page" note in your edit summary rather than leaving it blank when deleting a large amount of text, as such edits taken by themselves at first glance appear to be page-blanking vandalism. Triona 16:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

If you don't mind I put this page back into a state that reflects reality. Please leave the page format and data as is. Thanks. User:Meswiss

Please sign your comments according to wikipedia standards so that we know when this comment was made (use ~~~ or ~~~~ as explained on Help:Talk page). Also try and put all relevant comment under one section heading. Deon Steyn 12:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Dates

Are the dates in this article correct? It says the gun was produced from 1975-1976 but was adopted by the US army in 1985. Is there a typo or am I missing something? Epeeist smudge 18:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The dates are correct; the Model 92 was produced for only a short while before being significantly change--primarily the location of the safety and the magazine release. The model the US military adopted in 1985 is the model 92FS. scot 19:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
OK, thanks. The article does say that if I read it properly. i only brezed in on a random article so my attention wasn't as good as it might have been. Epeeist smudge 03:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pulling Childrens Section per Wikipedia Standards.

It's still here, just not in the main article:--Asams10 00:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In popular culture

The Beretta 92 and its derivatives are extremely popular in films, TV series and video games, along with the GLOCK 17. In nearly all cases, the guns used would be later models with slide mounted safeties and magazine releases behind the trigger guard.

Specific examples of the use of the Beretta 92 in media include:

[edit] Merge of Variants

There should never have been separate pages for all the variants (number over 50) as they do not meet the following Wikipedia criteria (from Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages)

  • There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Wikipedia is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept in the universe. For example, "Flammable" and "Non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on Flammability.
  • If a page is very short and cannot or should not be expanded terribly much, it often makes sense to merge it with a page on a broader topic.
  • If a short article requires the background material or context from a broader article in order for readers to understand it.

They should merely be listed as variants on one single page for the Model 92 (this page). You wouldn't create a separate page for each color variation of a certain car model would you? These pages were not created consistently and most of the data was duplicated. Exactly the type of problem that this duplication leads to has already happaned with the 92FS page now being more active and containing different information. I have added all the configuration and variant information, the next step is to incorporate the relevant information from the Beretta 92F/FS page into this one and redirect it as well. Deon Steyn 12:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, the list from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=Beretta&namespace=0 is impressively detailed, but really over the top. I'd support a merge into, at least, the basic types, not all the lettered variants, but I don't know enough about Berettas to help out much, sorry. -- nae'blis (talk) 21:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Filmography Reverts

The constant reverts to incorrect info is becoming a pet peeve. Only list major appearances, or create a seperate article. Frankly, the Beretta 92 has been in a lot of films and TV shows; we do not need to list every single one. But if we are going to list these programs, make certain that you are listing correct info.

  • 1. Do not list anything prior to 1976. The Beretta 92 did not enter production until this year.
  • 2. Do not list appearances of Beretta pistols other than the Model 92. For example, Bronson used a Beretta 84 in Death Wish II.
  • 3. Make certain that the pistols used are actually Beretta 92, and not other makes and models.

Examples:

    • Starsky and Hutch (TV): Starsky called his pistol a Beretta, but it was actually a Smith & Wesson, either the Model 39 or 59.
    • CHiPs (TV): The CHP officers carried revolvers not the Beretta 92.
    • CHiPs (Movie): Who really knows what anyone will be carrying in this film, it isn't out for another 2 years. FWIW: The CHP currently issues S&W 4006.
    • 48 Hrs.: Nolte carried a M1911 and later a S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 29.
    • Another 48 Hrs.: Nolte again carries a S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 29.
    • Miami Vice (TV): Over the course of the series, Crockett either carried a SIG P220, a Bren Ten, a S&W 645, a S&W 4506, a Detonics Combat Master, and a S&W 6906. Tubbs carried a S&W Bodyguard revolver and sometimes a SIG P226.
    • Cobra: Stallone carried a Colt Commander.
    • Red Heat: Arnold has a modified Desert Eagle and later a S&W Model 29 revolver. Belushi carries a snubnose S&W large-frame revolver, probably a Model 629.
    • Mad Max and its sequels: Max carried a sawed-off double barrel shotgun, not a Beretta 92.
    • Magnum P.I.: Magnum carried a M1911, not a Beretta 92.
    • Nash Bridges: Nash carried a custom M1911, not a Beretta 92.
    • Any Steven Seagal film: Seagal typically carries some variant of the M1911. --D.E. Watters 02:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the M9 Trials Winner and the Disputed Contract Bids

At the end of the M9 Trials and the completion of the first round of bidding, the SIG P226 had the leading score of 853.6 in six evaluation factors, while the Beretta 92 scored 835.34.

However, in the final bids for the M9 contract, Beretta underbid Saco (SIG's U.S. importer at the time). Saco bid $77,816,000 for the pistols, magazines, and spare parts. Beretta bid $74,762,000. This was controversial since in the original series of bids, Saco had underbid Beretta by just over $9 million. With the final prices factored in, the scores changed to Beretta 858, Saco 847.

This led to allegations that the Army had leaked Saco's bids to Beretta for the purposes of undercutting them. This argument was bolstered by the fact that Beretta USA's gerneral manager delivered their final bid personally. The bid document was type-written with blanks for the final prices, which were then written in and initialed with ink by the general manager. The General Accounting Office investigated this upon request by Congress. The report is titled Pistol Procurement - Allegations on Army Selection of Beretta 9-mm as DOD Standard Sidearm (June 1986). --D.E. Watters 00:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Some of the language in the section(s) regarding the Small Arms trials and efficacy in combat need to have the language neutralized; they read like either apologetics or advertisements. -- nae'blis (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modifications to slide

I was watching History Channel today and they said the slide was modified because law enforcement found that when the gun was extended within arms reach of a criminal, the criminal could grab the top of the slide and pull it towards themselves. This would remove the slide entirely from the gun disabling it. Anyone have references to confirm this? I'm not used to editing pages or I'd do it myself.

Please remember to sign your comments.
As for this modification, I have never heard of or read about it. Perhaps they are confusing several facts: yes at various points modifications have been made to meet requirements or requests from various armed services (US military, French military and Italian military/police) and yes there was a modification called a "slide retention device" (see Beretta 92#Early problems) that prevents the slide from flying off to the rear during a particular type of slide failure with some early models, but it had nothing to do with criminals pulling the slide from the pistol. I'm not a police officer, but boy, if I were and a criminal grabbed a hold of my pistol, I would probably prefer that the slide came off so that they wouldn't be able to use my own pistol against me! Deon Steyn 11:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like an urban legend. Anyone grabbing at a police officer's gun is going to be end up with many bullets in them, and even if anyone ever did pull the slide off the gun in this manner, there is no way it ever happened enough to warrant a design change. You would need to press the disassembly latch to remove the slide anyway so it's not a plausible story to begin with. --Junky 21:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually... LAPD officers often ask their armory to shave off the disassembly lever so that particular move is not possible. This came about when the move was showed in a Hollywood Film, in which Jet Li did indeed dissarm an opponent this way. We all got together in a National Guard Armory to see if it could be done, and sure enough, after practicing this a couple of times, we could do it with a 90% success rate. Now I am not saying that this is a recommended way to disarm an opponent, but it is mechanically possible. - Jerry.mills 04:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


It is possible but not very likely. It would require flipping the takedown lever and pulling off the slide all before the shooter pulls the trigger. What you need to be worried about is an assailant pushing your slide out of battery (The gun cannot fire out of battery and it would KB if it did). This is a problem on any semi-automatic pistol and, there are rail attachments that cover the muzzle for pistols. This prevents the BG from pushing your slide out of battery from the muzzle end.

DyNo 02:36, 9 November 2006

[edit] Sport use

The whole sport use section is just bloat in my opinion. Every gun has a lot of 3rd-party modifications available, and I don't think this discussion adds anything to the article. Most of it applies to all guns, and maybe it would fit in better in some other article. --Junky 20:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Calibers section

I only came to look at this article because I recently got in some time with several Beretta models, including the 92. Because I do not want to offend anyone, as this article seems to have a following, and because I don't know specifically which countries to list other than Italy, I just thought I'd of the obvious that Africa is not a country. --Trakon 10:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's better. Thanks to Asams10 for the edit. -- Mudwater 12:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
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