Talk:Berengar I of Italy

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[edit] Another Berengar

Berengar links to this page, while there is another Berengar, Berengar of Ivrea, also King of Italy. Should be a disambiguation?--J heisenberg 15:07, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and have made it so. --Jfruh 03:34, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I propose that this page be moved to Berengar I of Italy or Berengar, Holy Roman Emperor. I present the following reasons in point form:

• The Manual of Style indicates that monarch should be styled in the form "Name + Ordinal + of + Kingdom". Berengar's kingdom was Italy and he was the first Berengar (Berengar of Ivrea was the second). He was Emperor, but the use of the term Holy Roman Emperor is definitely anachornistic, nevertheless it is applied to Otto I, but not the Carolingians, so it's up for debate.
• Consistency: some Italian kings seem to be left under their common names, while some appear properly as per the MoS. I will propose these moves on all pertinent pages for medieval Italian kings (see Talk:Hugh of Arles and Talk:Berengar of Ivrea).
• A figure should be titled by his most important title in life and I think Berengar would like to be remembered as the Emperor, or at least king of Italy, and not the mere Furlan margrave.
• The German Wiki uses the form of "Berengar I".

Srnec 04:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emperor

Ahm, the "Holy Roman Emperor" is not something that undisputedly was in existence at the time. Usually we count only Otto I and onwards under that precise title. Charlemagne for example has been left to nicknamed variant due to doubts whether HRE is yet correct. Marrtel 12:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

But Berengar was undisputedly emperor. The question of applying "Holy Roman" retrospectively is rather minor, no? Some scholars do, others don't. There is continuity between Charlemagne's empire and the thing from which Francis II abdicated in 1806. I think the "fact check" notice ought to be removed so as not to give the false impression that he wasn't emperor. I have changed it to say "Emperor of the West," but that's as retrospective as HRE. Srnec 19:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)