Talk:Benazir Bhutto

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Khalidkhoso 21:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. This article has been tagged since January 2007.

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Has conclusive evidence been presented regarding the murder of Mir Murtaza, Benazir's brother? Many plausible incentives exist, but I hate to believe that Bhutto truly had a hand in her own brother's death.

Doesn't the following sentence:

first woman head of government in the Muslim world

need some qualification? Razia Sultan, anyone? Maybe saying adding a "in modern times" would help?--iFaqeer 02:06, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)

How about "first woman to be elected as the head of government among Muslim-majority countries." Egalitus 20:19, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm wondering why there's any need for a qualification. Has there actually been any other female leader of a Muslim country prior to Bhutto? If so, who? --Lee Hunter 19:00, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Oxford Pres 2 NPOV 3 Birthday photo 4 Her brother 5 Current Picture is Terrible

[edit] Oxford Pres

Wasn't she the first woman, period? No!!

And the first Asian?No------------Sirimavo Bandaranaike a Sri Lankan was!!!--Raju1 00:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think she was the first Muslim Women. She was also the first Asian women.

She will always be remembered like godess of Democracy in Indus Valley Region who waged war agains the dark forces. She is etenral in her character. Bhutto family sacrificed many family memebers in the struggling for democracy and humen rights in the country. They will always be remember in the history of Sindh and Pakistan.

[edit] NPOV

Sections of this article are clearly not neutral (i.e. the comment that she didn't do anything positive for the country during her reign). I've tacked on an NPOV header, and I'm not really competent to try and fix this. Ambi 02:26, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you that particular line we can do without and is factually inaccurate.I have made some changes to this and added some other info.See if appropriate and if so remove the NPOV when you deem fit.--PrinceA 05:03, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think the article does not have any POV lines and that is why I removed the tag.But if you still feel that way lets hear it.--Sheikhu 00:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the tag, as the worst of the bias is gone. It still looks like it could do with more on her career as prime minister, though. Ambi 04:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I read the article it seems to me who ever wrote it thought it to be self explanatory (where as it is not).It does not provide information about her times as Prime Minister whereas she has held this office twice.Another thing ,the indecent comment she is the biggest randi (meaning:she is a whore)is not appropriate for anyone to make.It should be removed!!! What is the point of an encylopedia??? It is for sake of information and knowledge,reference ,it is helpful but ruining it this way takes the thrill and enjoyment of looking to gain info cuz once you read something like that you have second thoughts about the truth of the whole article,Know what I mean? Please understand as I wish for other editors to look into this and see what appropriate measures they can take to fix this (pitch in).Thanx--Raju1 00:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's called vandalism, Raju. The moment you see something like that, feel free to fix it. The open-ness of Wikipedia gives it the strength of all our combined knowledge, energy, etc. This is the price we pay for it--and I think it is not a high price to pay. :D

Thanks for writing to me on this.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 03:15, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree with Ambi's claim that sections are not neutral —the sections are nonexistent. First section it, then NPOV is easier to deal with. Chronological sequence of events is nice, but with larger/growing articles it becomes necessary to split it along personal/professional lines. Sinreg-SV|t 03:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Some pro-Bhutto fanatic are infecting this page and are posting propaganda about this failed and corrupt woman. Wikipedia will not help Bhutto get elected so these fanatic should step polluting this page. . I dont want someone posting utter rubbish like "Bhutto enjoys the support of majority of Pakistanis". If she did have such support, Musharraf would be long gone by now. In fact the opposition's anti-government campaigns have been complete failures. The current article(Dec 20) is in horrible state and I am going to clean it up

REPLY: Bhutto doesn't nee wikipedia to get re-elected she is in the hearts and minds of the people of pakistan, they will vote for her and she will win a free and fair election. As far as the pro-bhutto fanatic allicaton, i am a pro- butto as is most of pakistan, but you seem to be an islamic extremeist who is aginst Women in power. You support a dictator jus like all the extreme religious parties.'

I think that the events of April 16th this year, when Asif Zardari returned, is proff enough of the support Bhutto still recieves. The extent that the Punjab government to stop that event from banning train's and busses also in forcing an rule that banned the freedome of association and assembley. Yet there was still great amounts of people there, this was folloed by police brutality, which people in my university actully had to endur. Suggets there is still a mass of support for this women courrup or not. However as Musharaff has the power of stoping such events from happening and their deletion from the media means that it doesn't matter how much support one has he will remain. All hail Musharraf, may he continue his dictatorship for ever.

Someone has been vandalising this page by constantly changeing the 'Charges of corruption' section to portray the image that she is already convicte. Correct me if i am worng but I am quite sure there hasn't been a conviction. Wasn't the same tacticts used against here father. Wasn;t there cases against him which have been proved politicaly motivated and false today?

Ya, I think you'r right. Isn't is a bit odd thaat all these popular liberal leader Nawaz and Bhutto being the central figures, are always charged of corruuption and dissmissed.

Reply : If Sharif, Bhutto and Zardari were as popular or respected as you claim, Musharraf would be gone long ago. The military has not been used to put down any protest and the media are more free in his government that any other. It is the mass corruption and failure of the Bhutto and Sharif government which are the reason Pakistanis dont trust them. Its also the reason the anti-govt campaigns have been such miserable flops. There is no evidence at all to support your claim that Bhutto and Sharif are popular. Heck they are not even in the country! Both are fugitives from the law.

What law? The one that orderes people to rape women as punishment or the one that refueses to convict rapists?

I am sorry but Musharrah has used force to stop protestes, my father a journalist, was beaten by police on April 16th while covering a peacfull protest he refused to give up his notes. He tried to take it to court but as usual they leagal system did nothing.

Reply: Musharraf does not control every policeman in Pakistan. Regarding the law, there are defective laws in Pakistan, that does not discredit the entire legal system or excuse the crimes committed by the rulers.

Can't you all see how many people were killed in Benazirs' family....it was only because they were Sindhi and Musharraf or any other punjabi can't bear to see that Sindhi's will actually make something out of themselves in this freakin world!!! Thats why he's building KALA-BAHG-DAM, so Sindhis would die of thirst and hunger. They're crops wont grow if the dam is built because the Indus River flows through Sindh!

Reply: Zulfiqar Bhutto had many enemies and the PPP engaged in extra-judicial killings in Karachi. There is no dearth of people who would like to get even with the Bhutto clan. Regarding Kalabagh Dam, Bhutto supported it while she was in office. Your comments on Sindh is garbage.

Besides Musharaff is not Punjabi

Musharraf is muhajir. And the person who wrote that about Sindhis..well..i kind of agree with you because alot of Baclochs and Sindhis have been protesting so the dam won't be built and Musharraf will built it anyway. And another thing, Benazir DID NOT support the Kala Bahg Dam project. She still is trying to stop Musharraf from building it...i would know...I'm related to her!!!

Reply: Human rigts groups have used Asif Zardari return as proof that Pakistan in a crisi concerning political and human rights in the country. The fact that mushrafa had to intervien in his arrival to such an extent proves that the PPP still maintains crediable popular support enough to make him fear Bhutto and her Husmabds return

Also recently NAB has been invesigating Bhutto's activitis outside her term in office how exactly are these actiites related to abuse of power or corruption during her role, this is serves as proof that Bhutto's government didn't engage in any corruption the cases and as Musharraf is desperate to get a conviction inorder to bar her he is now looking in to her exiled years. Well no cases were proved in the past 10 years does he realy expect any new cases to be prvoed now. The extent to which Bhuto's financial and personal affairs have been examined and the fact that not a single corruption verdict has been passed proves her innocence to me and make me feel sick to the stomach that i had ever doubted her.

[edit] Birthday photo

I'm removing the birthday photo which appears to show Bhutto in a short skirt. I suspect the photo is a fake (I can't find anything remotely similar in searches - she always appears in modest dress) and the copyright info is dubious. It is supposedly from the book Benazir Life and Struggle by Nusrat Ameen. Nusrat Ameen is a real reporter but I can't find any evidence that a book by that title actually exists. --Lee Hunter 03:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Lee, I just saw your comment. I, too, came across this questionable picture today and removed it. I wonder who keeps on posting it.--Disinterested 20:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello Mr. Lee, I am writing this about the above photo.... Please visit the link below http://www.despardes.com/articles/sep06/20060908-bb-hameed.htm

The writer is a respected contributor to international newspapers and I have contacted him myself to validate the authenticity of the photo. I have also written to the controller of Benazir Bhutto's official website pointing towards this photo but no negation has been received. I have concluded that the photo is authentic. In spite of that I would not encourage posting it untill the person allows this private photo to be used for publication. Oct 20,2006 Loipen

The page states that he is not the copyright owner and that he has no information on whether it is authentic. ("The emailer of the above photograph says it's Benazir Bhutto's...former Prime Minister of Pakistan, during her college (Oxford) days. We are not sure if it's really so or just a digitally modified picture circulating the internet."). --Lee Hunter 14:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Again there's an attempt to add this photo to the page. This time the editor makes the improbable claim that it's on the Pakistan People's Party site. I did several Google image searches [1] and was unable to find it there. Again I note that all pictures of Bhutto that I've seen (other than this one) show her modestly dressed and wearing a head scarf. I can only conclude that the people who are pushing this image are doing so for partisan reasons. --Lee Hunter 14:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I've got a textbook with a GREAT photo of Benazir Bhutto - she is very aesthetically pleasing, especially for a political figure! : P But really - it's a great 1988 photo that should be iconic. Moreover, it should be the featured photo - flanked by officials and guards, she's addressing the public. Unfortunately, I do not have a scanner but I'll upload it once I can! ~~

Please don't! I'm sure it would be a great addition to the article but Wikipedia has strict rules that prevent using any pictures that don't have clear copyright permissions. --Lee Hunter 15:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Lee your assertions of Benazir dressing up modestly are pretty vague. Who defines what is modest and what is not. I would come directly to the point, just have a look at how she was dressed at the 3rd annual womens awards on October 14, 2006 at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York. I am not a moralist but when Benazir can wear a seethrough blouse in front of thousand odd spectators I would describe her dress code as western not eastern or conservative. Her bra was completely visible to all and sundry and left many gasping with surprise at her choice of such bold apparel. What was ironic that she still had the head scarf on. It's been now clear that she wears the scarf as an iconic symbol rather than a choice. I am not trying to defend or oppose anything here, but I feel that the article about benazir is being censored unobjectivley without leaving room for serious and factual journalism. My Kind Regards Santoosh, ASI NewYork, USA

Do you mean this? [2] I suppose it might have left some people gasping, perhaps it would have caused a riot on the streets of Peshawar, but I don't think many people in New York City batted an eye. In any case, I'm not suggesting that she should only be seen in the most conservative dress, only that photographs should always conform to Wikipedia policies regarding the use of photographs (formal portrait-style photos that represent a typical view of the person are used where available, the ownership of the photograph must be clear and the copyright must be explictly granted). The "birthday party" photo met none of those criteria (and was also very much outdated even if was legitimate). That particular photo was also presumably taken in an unguarded moment at a private event and so might also be contrary to WP:BLP --Lee Hunter 02:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mr.Lee I agree completely with the policies that you have outlined regarding posting photos of public figures. No the link you have mentioned does not show what I was pointing towards. Perhaps the Women's World Award website would have the details. I don't want to post it, lest it be taken as an infringement. I am now writing from UAE but two months back in Newyork I myself was witness to the radical attire shifts of Benazir Bhutto and found it rather amuzing and irresponsible on her behalf. After the formal photo session at the dinner party she let go of her scarf and the "chaddar" (oriental shawl) which was covering most of her top during the award ceremony, leaving her sheer top open to view. And yes there were other women more scantily clad than her at the party, but People gasped, because this time it was Benazir Bhutto herself. One more thing, I am from India and have been an NRI for most of my life. Politics in southeast asia is an area which might be some saga from Mars for me, hence I have no vendetta for or against any person(s) who is or has held a public office. I just wanted this article to be more accomodating when it comes to presenting facts about the personal lives of Public Figures. Perhaps you could suggest a better approach. Kind Regards. Santoosh

Mr. Santoosh can you please give me the link for the above party where you saw benazir bhutto.

Please let me know at what address should I send you the link. --Santoosh

[edit] Her brother

I added a section called "Shame and Scandal in the Family" about Benazir's fight with her mother and brother between 1993 and '96. The fight made headlines throughout Asia and was a major embarrassment to Pakistan. His murder may have been the straw that broke the camel's back and lead to her dismissal by her puppet president.

It is emminent that the only benficiar of Murtaza Bhutto's Murder were Benazir and Asif Zardari. Murtaza had come to terms with the countries secret agencies (King makers) and was about to replace his sister, Benazir came to know about it and with the help from RAW ([[Research and Analysis Wing]]) of India got her brother murdered, one assasin was killed and the other managed to escape.

[edit] Current Picture is Terrible

Current picture is no good, weshould replace it with a nicer looking photo. This is a past prime minister ofa huge country, show some respect.