Talk:Ben Ownby

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Do not delete this stub-it is a major story. Tommypowell 14:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Not everyone cares about missing children. The article needs to assert notability or be merged with the sex offender article John Reaves 14:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • More people care about Ben Ownby (thousands of google hits) than ever cared about John Reaves-the article stays-unmerged. I am asserting notability. Tommypowell 21:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
No you don't understand, this is an encyclopedia, not a news website. Peoeple are looking Ben up on Google because he's in the news right now while John Reaves is not. This subject does not warrant its own page as interest will tank in just a couple months - just imagine how 10 years from now no one will even recall Ben's name. I suggest adding Ben and his fellow kidnappee to the List of kidnappings articlee and then creaeting a re-direct for any "Ben Ownby" search queries.SirLamer 00:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
SirLamer, I hope you realize John Reaves is the guy who proposed the merge, not the sex offender... and Tommypowell, I hope you didn't realize that, 'cause talk about uncalled for. ~ CZeke 01:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • How do you know "interest will tank". We have articles on Steven Staynor and Elizabeth Smart. In the years to come we will see trials, interviews, books and movies. The article stays-no merge, no re-direct. What is wrong with you people! We have articles on obscure Slovenian poets that not even 5 people know but you want to censor a story that is on the front page world wide. Give me a break. We have an article on Spencer Elden who did nothing but model for a single album cover as an infant Tommypowell 13:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Um, this article hasn't even been nominated for deletion yet. IMO, if the one kid who was missing for 4 years gets deleted, then Ben, who was missing for 4 days should as well. I have nothing against either, and it's truly a sad story. However Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Do we know for a fact that they'll become more notable? Not yet. That's basically why the Shawn article was nominated. Just because people who aren't in the news have articles, doesn't make them less notable. --theblueflamingoSpeak 05:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I was going to use the not a crystal ball argument the other way. Right now he *IS* notable and wikipedia does not know that he will become less so. Since its not a crystal ball should be keep (well we will see how the other AfD comes out) and if in the future it becomes approprate the article could go. Though I think right now all three articles (both boys and the man) should be merged into one article simply because I think it would make a better article and they shoudl be split out as needed if needed. Dalf | Talk 23:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Correction: Right now he is newsworthy, not notable. GassyGuy 00:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I would think this case will be researched, written about and referenced within the academic community for quite some time.
  • You better beleive that. If the trolls merge this article we will just restore it. Tommypowell 13:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Date Of Birth-December 6, 1993

Ownby and his family have given multiple press conferences available and covered by the international media (Today, Oprah,CNN, etc.) Furthermore, as a public figure, his birth date is, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Privacy_of_birthdays "widely known and available to the public"-see http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/located-adults-children/9677-found-safe-william-ownby-mo-01-08-07-a.html and http://www.moioof.com/Missing%20Children.html and http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=535406 for just 3 examples available to the most casual Net browser. Furthermore, his being under 18 is certainly not a barrier to his birthday being posted-see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Fanning and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connor_Lee and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Gaydos and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosuke_Ikematsu and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Hess amongst MANY others. Tommypowell 13:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Forums aren't usually considered good sources, and "missing" posters always include DOB, but that doesn't mean Wikipedia has to. As for the people you listed, those are all actors. Ben Ownby is not.
BTW, you can shorten links to Wikipedia article by placing them in double brackets, like [[Dakota Fanning]], which will show up as Dakota Fanning. Prometheus-X303- 13:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
None of those are good or notable sources. There's no reason to have his birthday listed here. Please consider looking at the three revert rule before you get blocked. John Reaves (talk) 16:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Ben Ownby is famous however. You can not deny that. Having his birthday included in a wikipedia article about him, isn't going to hurt him. Fighting for Justice 05:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I'd be willing to deny that. But, then, that's why I'm not editing this farce of an article. GassyGuy 08:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DOB

The article has been fully protected and the DOB has been removed (per legal and WP:BLP reasons). Please bring this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, they should be able to solve this dispute. Cbrown1023 02:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Policy is a very important thing and is the "supreme order for Wikipedia". Policy says that because we are "in doubt about the notability of the person in question", we should "err on the side of caution and simply list the year of birth rather than the exact date". That is what is currently on the page. Elizabeth Smart and the others you mentioned, are currently over 18 or are "famous people" such as actors and musicians, in which case, they are not the same. The smart thing to do would be to just include the birth year or the month, which is what was done. As I am an administrator, my only opinion is policy, and I am, therefore, quite neutral on this topic. Cbrown1023 21:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Please note that you continually repeating the information is also making it more "widely available" and is not a smart thing to do when that is the information that is being evaluated for inclusion. If you say it once more until this discussion is over, I will have to block you for BLP reasons and violation of policy/privacy (posting personal information). Wait until this discussion is over and consensus has been reached before typing the date of birth again. Cbrown1023 21:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
There are no "legal" reasons for protecting DOB, that's a red herring. However we do have a WP:BLP which says we shouldn't do it for privacy reasons. If the media have reported his DOB eleventy thousand times, then privacy is already a moot point. So. Can someone provide a WP:RS that has his DOB ? Wjhonson 18:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sodomy

By the way, I wonder if we're also going to have an edit-war over the fact that his alledged abductor has now been charged with "sodomizing" him four times a day for four days :) Seems pertinent. Wjhonson 18:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged?

On the Shawn Hornbeck talk page, there's a "discussion" regarding whether Shawn is an "alleged" kidnapping victim or a kidnapping victim. Pointing out the discrepancy here that Ben is listed as a kidnapping victim, not alleged. So which is it? I believe the two articles should be consistent on this point whichever label is ultimately decided. Gschrive87 16:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think it should be said that he is a kidnapping victim. There doesn't seem to be much dispute that he was actually kidnapped; the reason we'd use "alleged" is because Devlin is innocent until proven guilty. Saying "alleged kidnapping victim" seems akin to saying "alleged stabbing victim" or something along those lines... .V. [Talk|Email] 12:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
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