Talk:Ben Meiklejohn
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I rewrote this article, after initially encountering what appeared to be a resume for Miekeljohn. Feedback and changes are welcome.
Jules1236, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the article back to a previous one after viewing Jules1236's edits which 1) deleted relevant factual information about Ben Meiklejohn's political involvement and 2) inserted characterizations designed to reflect Ben Meiklejohn as a controversial politician, the sum of which these two editoral adjustments inaccurately portray a record of lifetime acheivements that unproportionately gives added weight and significance to incidents that are of relative minor importance in the context of his life and what he is known for. Also, the articles referenced as factual basis for Meiklejohn "defending" the controversial actions of his colleagues do not actually suggest any formal or public defense of such actions. The edits seem designed to associate Ben Meiklejohn and his work on the Portland School Committee as a legacy of defending controversial choices of other members. I like some of the formatting change and would encourage another attempt without deleting relevant factual information, or inserting select articles and statements that appear to come from a clear personal bias against Ben Meiklejohn as a politician.
This unsigned comment was added by user:130.111.18.135
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Here on wikipedia, we only revert in cases of vandalism. Please see the assume good faith guidelines. Please go through the article and make the changes you wish on a piece by piece manner, not by reverting the entire article.
While I am sympathetic to many of your points, I see we have different ideas of relevant factual information. This in itself is perfectly okay. However, in the spirit of wikipedia, I urge you to work with me here to find common ground.
In hopes of finding some common ground, here are some of my issues with the previous version of the page.
1) Not wikipedia format. Remember, this is an encyclopedia. Let's take this seriously and fix some silly mistakes like the faulty links.
2) Lets organize it. It currently has information all over the place in no discernable order. I think I did a pretty good job organizing it.
3) Electoral History. I added in after every mention of his political campaigns whether he won or lost. It previously only mentioned when he won, and there was no mention of a loss. I also eliminated mention of his write-in campaigns, since there is no way to verify that he actually campaigned in these elections.
4 Relevent info. This will be harder to agree on. Remember, this is an encyclopedia article, not something by and for Miekeljohn's friends. Excessive info about him and the oboe just isn't relevent enough to merit mention on wikipedia.
In general, I see it as unfair that while I spent a long time editing this article and adding citations to back up my recearch, it was reverted in a second to a messily typed disorganized page that I feel violates the NPOV guidelines.
While I may have been guilty of removing some useful information, you certainly seem to be more guilty of this. Lets have a civilized discussion, hopefully without mediation, and find a way to improve this article.
Thank you, and I look forward to working together.
Jules1236 04:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I also adressed some of your bias concerns. While the school committee section may not be what you'd like it to be, I hope you will make the changes you want, but in a constructive and nonconfrontational manner.
Jules1236 05:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
1:10 pm, 4 january 2007
The encyclopedia format is better. I changed the section titled Political Involvement because its content was duplicative of both the School Committee and Electoral History sections, and significant participation by Meiklejohn in the Green Independent Party had been completely eliminated. When it comes to relevancy, we should have more discussion on this because the encyclopedia article should likewise not be something used for and by opponents of Ben Meiklejohn's politics, in an attempt to characterize him as controversial and unpopular. Also, it is a matter of opinion as to what judgment should be made on content that merits inclusion in the article. While Jules considers Meiklejohn's oboe interest as not relevant, others could deem it appropriate, especially considering he has played oboe with a famed member of the Grateful Dead. Further edits at a later point.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Meiklejohn (talk • contribs) 18:16, 4 January 2007(UTC).
Thank you, Meiklejohn. While I agree that Mr. Meiklejohn's participation in the Maine Green Independent Party should be mentioned, I'm not sure about all the detail you put in. I trimmed down the info a little bit. I also added some info to the School commitee section.
To give you an idea about the unprecedented level of detail this article goes into, I encourage you to read the articles of other local politicians, most of whom are better known and more influential than Mr. Miekeljohn is.
- Glenn A. Cummings, Speaker, Maine House of Representatives (and Portland rep)
- John Coyne (disambiguous), Chairman of school committee
- Sive Neilan, chair, Portland Democratic Party
This article even rivals John Baldacci's article. A little excessive? Jules1236 23:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The previous comments about bias in the School Committee section deserve notice. The School Committee votes on thousands of motions. Proposals he has sponsored and authored, which received significant media attention, should be included as substantive work. Policies which he incidentally supported don't rise to the level of inclusion in the encyclopedia article. The Columbus Day proposal was made by Jason Toothaker with no involvement by Meiklejohn other than a vote. The boy scouts issue was put forward by the Policy Committee when Stephen Spring chaired it and Meiklejohn was not a member, and his participation was as a voting School Committee member. The inclusion of these "supports" for issues which he did not pioneer do seem designed to portray his service in a certain opinionated light. Also, Jules1236 continues to insist that Meiklejohn "defends" actions of his colleagues received negatively by the public, however neither of the references supports that Meiklejohn defended either. In the footnote for Spring's incident, Meiklejohn is not even noted, and in the footnote for Toothaker's incident, Meiklejohn is quoted making positive statements about Toothaker's service but not defending his actions. These references however, do indicate that the partisan perceptions of the Portland School Committee, including of Meiklejohn as a Green and member, are real, and that dynamic warrants inclusion in the article.
The quantity of an article in relation to other entries need not be an issue-- only that the article be factual and non-biased in nature. John —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.111.18.150 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 5 January 2007.
This article seems reasonable as is. Meiklejohn 03:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC) I conformed the election result and descriptors choosing elected/not elected over won/lost considering he was elected to the school committee in 2001 and 2004 but did not entirely win, coming in second to Kim Matthews in 2001 and Ellen Alcorn in 2004.Meiklejohn 04:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I still feel there should be some mention of the controversies of the past two or three years invlolving Meikeljohn and the Greens. It is possible (and sometimes neccesary) to discuss a controversy without being biased, and I don't think we should be afraid to do so. The fact is, the school committee almost never made the news before Meikeljohn came along and now (indigious peopes' day, boy scouts, military recruiters, the revolt over weighted grades, stephen spring, jason toothaker, etc.) they can't stay out of the news. Meikeljohn clearly is a "team captain" of the Greens, and these actions deserve some mention. 74.69.225.35 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Removed incorrect information. Antonio Blasi was elected to the Hancock planning board in 2000 and continues to serve, making him the longest serving elected Green in Maine.
