Talk:Battle of the Vorskla River

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related task forces (periods and conflicts): Medieval warfare task force (c. 500–c. 1500)

Contents 1 A very confusing military campaign not supported by sources 2 misleading statement 3 Something wrong? 4 == When did Tokhtamysh die? ==

[edit] A very confusing military campaign not supported by sources

Various Internet resources and Wilkipedia pages in other languages suggest that the allied army was made not only of Lithuanians, Poles and Russo-Lithuanian princes, but also by Teutonic Knights, Moldovans and renegade Tatars. I would expect to find some sources easily, especially about participating of Teutonic Knights who later faced their former allies in the battle of 1410.

[edit] misleading statement

Vytautas' defeat at the Vorskla effectively blocked Lithuanian expansion to Southern Ruthenia. His enormous state also lost hard-won access to the Black Sea.

The saying that state “also lost” could be misleading because the “lost” of lands was short lived and Mongols did not materialized their victory, because soon afterwards Grand Duchy of Lithuania driven back Mongols and the lands were reclaimed (Vytautas not dead yet). The same thing points maps:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/no_name_2/ldk15.jpg (15c. Vyt still a live) http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/no_name_2/imageXV.gif (same) http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/no_name_2/?action=view&current=TornTr.jpg (Vyt dead but somehow I still sea link to Black sea)

my suggestion is to change “also lost” to temprory lost or to leave “also lost” and explain a situation, because now it looks like Grand Duchy of Lithuania lost forever these lands….

This article is about the battle and its immediate consequences. No need to retell the whole history of Eastern Europe here. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

And this is not whole history of Eastern Europe - this is a direct and immediate consequence. same as was writen in other parts of wiki - A large victory in 1399, for instance, only briefly delayed Lithuanian control spreading all the way to the Black Sea. and the immediate consequences was a temp. lost. Besides one word is not the whole history, but if you so frighten of the words, maybe it is more simply just write - mongols/tatars smashed vytautas army....without any explan. ? M.K 17:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

just wondering what your silence could mean... M.K 11:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Something wrong?

So, what is wrong this time? I hope you will give decent explan. this time M.K. 16:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Why do you think that Poles and Lithuanians existed in 1399 and the Russians did not? Are you a racist? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 :D It is the first time in my life somebody is asking me am I a racist. My answer: I am not :P You see from the context of this event it more likely that people were from Ruthenia lands, but with Russians +- , let Russians be in such case if you so insist so, but I am strongly refusing to believe that Byelorussians were in XIVc. ! And even participated in war!

There did you gone? You have a bad characteristic - you do not speak much on talk... M.K. 11:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] == When did Tokhtamysh die? ==

This article claims that Tokhtamysh was killed during the Battle of Vorskla in 1399, yet another Wilkipedia page (linked to this one) suggests that he was killed in 1406 or even 1407 by assassins sent by Edigu. Also there was an incorrect statement that Tokhtamysh united Blue and White Hordes, to form the Golden Horde. At the time of Tokhtamysh the ruler of the White Horde was his former ally and later sworn enemy Timur (Timur Lenk) who eventually defeated Tokhtamysh and destroyed the Golden Horde. All history articles on the Wilkipedia history pages have a lot of these inconsistencies and need cleaning. Vitoldus44 18:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)