Talk:Battle of the Hornburg

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I'm not sure why the sentence "The evil men fell on their faces" is needed, I haven't read the books in a few years, was there a particular emphesis on this? If so, it should be stated better. In the way its written now it kinda sounds like they tripped and fell, oops. —siroχo 01:56, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)

Well, we do need to mention what happened to the evil men in order to conclude "Rohan won the battle". I agree that it could be better stated. The passage in the book says, "The White Rider was upon them, and the terror of his coming filled the enemy with madness. The wild men fell on their faces before him." Basically both the wild men and the Orcs lost control. I'm not sure how to fix this in the article, but I'll take a stab at it. Eric119 03:03, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Changed number of Rohirrim present to 2,000 + 1,000. The original 2,000 are the 1,000 under Gamling and the 1,000 under Theoden. Then Erkenbrand's 1000 come. Maeglin Lómion 07:20, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 "Battle of Helm's Deep" 2 Was Gandalf a commander? 3 Orc Numbers and extra information - Jackson version 4 Changed the links 5 Weapons and Warfare info

[edit] "Battle of Helm's Deep"

According to The Encyclopedia of Arda (which is usually an excellent source), the proper name for this battle is "Battle of the Hornburg", and "Battle of Helm's Deep" was never used by Tolkien. Why, then, is this article at the latter location? Can we move it to Battle of the Hornburg and include a note in the article starting that the popularity of "Battle of Helm's Deep" derives from the movie? There is, in fact, a reference in Letters in which Tolkien quite emphatically states that Hornburg is a better designation than Helm's Deep, since most of it takes place at the fortress (the Hornburg) rather than in the ravine behind it (Helm's Deep). [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:23, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think you're probably right. The chapter in TTT is called "Helm's Deep", but I think the battle is named after the fortress [1]. —siroχo

I concur. This is the name used in the appendices to LotR. Eric119 02:16, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In that case, we probably need to get someone to delete the redirect so that we can move this to Battle of the Hornburg. (Or, hey, maybe not! It worked! Now we need to clean up references from other articles.) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 14:28, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It still says "Helms Deep" on the "War of the Ring" category thing. That should be standardized. Savidan 03:23, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Was Gandalf a commander?

I havn't read the book in a long time so this may be incorrect, but certainly in the film 'The Two Towers' Gandalf while being a participant in the battle is not present for much of the time, "Look for me on the morning of the third(?) day". While this is an important contribution I am not so sure it warrants the title of commander --Shadow Dancer 994 00:37, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Orc Numbers and extra information - Jackson version

Can anone provide a source claiming the number of each type of Uruk-hai in the Jackson version of Helms Deep? I find it very questionable. Also, is it really necessary to also mention that The Battle of Pellanor Fields also take up one chapter? --Eldarone 22:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I did the Orc numbers thing, but I did NOT do the pelennor chapter thing. Oh, yeah, but there really was 100 berserkers. I got it from LOTR weapons and warefare. --User:Shadow-Stalker

Is that one of the Offical Movie guide books? If it is, then that would be acceptable source for the movie battle. I'm also thinking about removing the Pelennor ields mention. It's kind of pointless. --Eldarone 01:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well...should I change the orc numbers thing? --User:Shadow-Stalker

As long as it's from an verfiable source, and the numbers are accurate, then the orc numbers can stay --Eldarone 20:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

It was kinda an estimate...User:Shadow-Stalker

that could be a problem then. How was the numbers estimated? --Eldarone 02:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changed the links

The links on the second line were for Hornburg and not for Helm's Deep, and they led to some German town, so i changed it to Helm's Deep.

[edit] Weapons and Warfare info

Aside from the Orc numbers, does this book have info about the numbers of the Rohirrim and Huorns beyond what is said in the Jackson film? Uthanc 01:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The number Erkenbrand's reinforcements is clearly stated by Tolkien in the second to last paragraph of of chapter 7, book 3 "Helm's Deep": "Behind him hastening down in long slopes, were a thousand men on foot; their swords were in their hands."

About Théoden's host, that leaves Meduseld, he says this, in chapter 6 "The King and the Golden Hall": "At the gate they found a great host of men, old and young, all ready to saddle. More than a thousand were there mustered."

In chapter 7 he also mentions the strength of the defenders in the words of Gamling the Old to Éomer and Théoden: "'Maybe, we have a thousand to fight on foot', said Gamling, an old man, the leader of those that watched the Dike." --Fogeltje 11:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but I was referring to numbers in The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare, [2] a book purportedly detailing these topics, part of the film trilogy's merchandise. Much, if not most of it is invented by the writer and he mixes Tolkien's details with original details without distinction. To paraphrase Mr. T, I pity the fool who'd think it's true for the books! :P Useful quotes, though. Uthanc 22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)