Talk:Battle of Seminara

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Added page. Will make a simple map over the weekend and add it. Will do editing as well .... Larry Dunn 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "greatest captain"?

I'm guessing (as I unfortunately don't have a copy of the book on hand) that this evaluation is from Lanning? It would probably be best to attribute that directly in the text (e.g. "according to Lanning, the greatest captain..."). Lanning isn't really an authority on this particular period (or uncontroversial in his opinions, for that matter), and the evaluation isn't something that couldn't be open to debate; presenting it as a particular historian's judgement seems more appropriate than simply stating it as fact. Kirill Lokshin 23:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not just according to Lanning. For instance, Tom Arnold (in a book edited by Geoffrey Parker, BTW) says he was "known as the Great Captain for his peerless martial skill." I don't have Oman with me now, but I'd be surprised if he didn't say something quite similar. I'll add a cite to Arnold in the footnote, and I'll check for a similar cite in Oman.Larry Dunn 15:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I'll see if I can find something similar in Oman; I don't recall, offhand, such a statement, but it's been a while since I've read the chapters for this period. In any case, the gist of my point (somewhat broadened to "according to many historians, the greatest captain..."?) is probably still something I'd suggest considering; absolute evaluations of best/greatest/worst/etc. usually work better as (even vague) attributions rather than statements of fact. Kirill Lokshin 16:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take second look at the language and see if I can couch it differently. BTW, Kirill, have you seen the wiki page called Cavalry tactics? It's in a rather sad shape. Perhaps we can get some attention to it to whip it into shape?Larry Dunn 19:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the central topics are generally in much poorer shape than particular events/people/etc. It's more time-consuming to collect comprehensive sources for a broader topic, so they tend to be mostly composed of scraps of material that people have added over time. Kirill Lokshin 19:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Done (the change to the reference to Corboba). How is the article looking so far? It's my first attmept to exhaustively cite my sources. I will be creating maps as well -- the battle map should be fairly simple, but any suggestions on how to create the campaign map showing Calabria?Larry Dunn 16:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks good so far. Campaign maps have always been a weak point for me as well—I'm rather lacking in actual drawing ability—so the most useful suggestion I can make would be to crop out part of an existing map (such as this one) to use as a background and then draw the needed symbols over top of it. Kirill Lokshin 18:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where was this Battle??

On Jim Dunn's request, I am creating a map of the campaign leading to this battle. According to the article, Seminara is way down in the "toe" of Italy, perhaps 80 miles from Naples, but that doesn't tie in to the article well:

"Ferdinand led the allied army out of Naples on June 28 and crossed over an easterly line of hills approximately 3 miles out from Seminara."

This sentence implies that Seminara is right next to Naples. Moreover, the battle was on June 28th, according to the article, the same date that Ferdinand left Naples.

Let me know your thoughts on this matter, if you would. Thanks, MapMaster 23:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

According to this map, it's quite far from Naples. I'm not sure how to make sense of the dates, though, unless there's been some sort of Julian/Gregorian error. Kirill Lokshin 23:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I know. I know. I figured it out. The sentence should say:

"Ferdinand led the allied army out of Seminara on June 28 and crossed over an easterly line of hills approximately 3 miles east of town."

Re-reading the article carefully, Ferdinand had already made it to Seminara. I am going to change the article to the wording above. MapMaster 00:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Larry Dunn. Jim is my evil twin. (Some would say, my good twin.  :-> )

Thanks so much for the map, including the correction on the Swiss!

Actually, my sources do not indicate in what direction Ferdinand led the army out of Seminara, only that the line of hills he got to was easterly. (That is, running along to the east.)

Quote Prescott:

and King Ferdinand led his little army without further delay against the enemy.

After traversing a chain of hills, stretching in an easterly direction from Seminara, at a distance of about three miles, he arrived before s small stream ...

As you can see, that's quite ambiguous as to the direction of the movement of Ferdinand's force. All we can assume with any confidence is that he did not go west, because he crossed these hills, and they are to the east of Seminara.

Some confusion was obviously caused by my saying that Ferdinand left Naples. It was a brain fart, to be honest. I meant Seminara. Thanks for the catch.

Mapmaster, Im going to make a simple, crude schematic of the deployment and tactical operations on the battlefield. Would you be able to do your magic on that map and make it look good? Larry Dunn 15:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)