Talk:Battle of Maritsa

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Maritsa article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related task forces (nations and regions): Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present) Related task forces (periods and conflicts): Medieval warfare task force (c. 500–c. 1500)

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. This article has been tagged since January 2007.

[edit] Strength of the armies

Where this number of 20,000 men come from? According to Encyclopædia Britannica, Serbian forces numbered 70,000 men; "Another campaign to resist Turkish expension was organised in 1371 by Vukasin, the king of the southern Serbian lands, who gathered an army of 70,000 men an marched into the Maritsa valley". The Ottoman army was 'much' smaller; "While halting at Chernomen [...], however, his forces were surprised by a much smaller Turkish army...". And also the Serbian casualties must be considered heavy; "...which slaughtered large number of Serbs, including Vukasin, and drove many of the survivors into the river to be drowned." (Encyclopædia Britannica).
Lysandros 01:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

"Three years later, in 1364 Philippolis fell to Lala Shahin, the Turkish commander in Europe. The States beyond the Balkan now began to dread the advance of the Turks; at the instigation of the Pope an allied army of 60,000 Serbs, Hungarians, Wallachians and Moldavians attaked Lala Shahin. Murad, who had returned to Brusa, crossed over to Biga, and send on Haji Ilbeyi with 10,000 men; this fell by night on the Serbians and utterly routed them at a place still known as the 'Serbians' coffer' (at Maritsa river)." Encyclopedia Britannica, Edition 1910, Vol. 27, pp 443, 444 Lysandros 11:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is confusing. It is true that the Serbian Army (with all the allies) amounts to 60,000-70,000 men; but the Turkish force in Europe is overestimated. It was 4,000-4,500 strong (and this is sourced), and not as the article states. And further, the problem is, on what does this article concentrate? These are the sizes of their armies throughout the whole military campaign. For instance, the front which was led by Ugljesa & Vukasin and that (very likely) is the only part of the army that really fought a battle numbered 20,000. There were numerous minor battles along the road. Besides that, in the greatest of the clashes, when the Ottoman Turks caught the Serbs totally by surprise (which is possibly that "Battle of Chernomen" everyone seems to refer to"), the Turkish squadron numbered 800 soldiers. The article should be expanded and corrected. --PaxEquilibrium 22:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allied Balkan forces

"the allied Balkan forces (including Serbs, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Wallachians and Moldavians) numbering between 60,000 and 70,000 men"

I think that this number is very ovrestimated. Compare it with estimated Serbian forces in the Battle of Kosovo.Also, I couldn't find anywhere (except here) facts about participation of Bulgarians, Hungarians, Wallachians and Moldavians. This information should be checked. Andrija January 9, 2007