Talk:Battle of Gettysburg

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Good article Battle of Gettysburg has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.
Maintained The following users are actively contributing on this topic and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Hlj (Hal Jespersen) (talk • watchlist • email)
Martin Osterman (talk • contribs • email)

Contents

[edit] older entries

A previous edit changed a description of Gettysburg as considered the "turning point of the ACW" to "turning point ... in the East." Although GB is in fact in the Eastern Theater, most historians and popular descriptions do not qualify the turning point in this way. In fact, they also use the term "High Water Mark of the Confederacy" to represent the PPT assault, not "High Water Mark of Lee's Army" or something similar. If someone would like to edit in an explanation that some disagree and that Vicksburg was equally important, that's OK, but it hardly rates mentioning in the first paragraph about this battle.

I said that because the Union already had victories in the West, but I agree, it probably doesn't make much difference in an article about a specific battle. ugen64 14:57, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

A few other edits I made:

  • I cleaned up most usages of Corps numbers. I've found that, most commonly, Union Corps are designated with Roman numerals (I, II, X, XI, etc). Confederates, after Jackson's death, were more frequenty referred to as First, Second, etc. Maintaining this differentiation makes the text easier to follow.
  • I added a few more Generals' names, since the trend of other editors seems to be to put more and more detail into the description.

<sarcasm> This article needs more discussion on shoes. </sarcasm> --NoPetrol 06:50, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

'Pettigrew was in search of a large supply of shoes in town, but this explanation has been largely discounted by historians'." -- NEVER argue with Shelby Foote!! - A. Lurker 08/24/05

[edit] Revert

The page currnetly says "PeNiS! That is what the Battle of Gettysburg is all about." This is in serious need of a revert. Unfortunatley, I do not know how. Can someone please do that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.161.40.64 (talk) 22:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Second Day

Just wanted to inform everyone that I made some revisions and additions to the role of Chamberlain's 20th Maine during the fighting. There was some information I added and rewording as well to give it a smoother feel. If anyone has any questions/problems, feel free to let me know! --Martin Osterman 21:15, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Don't you think this level of detail would be more appropriate in Battle of Little Round Top instead? Hal Jespersen 22:07, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Actually, to be honest (and sounding like a noob), yes, it would... I just didn't realize that a separate subpage had been set up for that! I'll go check it out this evening and see what to move... apologies! --Martin Osterman 23:13, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

Although I don't normally pay attention to the battleboxes in these articles, all the recent changes to add "soldiers" to strength and casualty figures isn't helpful. The word soldier is perhaps being added because you want to differentiate from civilians or because you think it would wrong to say "men". But these battles were fought by officers, NCOs, teamsters, cooks, and other categories that don't fit into "soldier". Just leave the numbers and readers will figure it out. Hal Jespersen 14:32, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Largest Battle

Time and again I hear Gettysburg being referred to as the largest battle of the American Civil War and yet every source I've seen gives much larger numbers for Chancellorsville. Sources include other pages on this site, a number of other websites and The Civil War: Day by Day by E.B. Long. Perhaps I'm missing some key detail (the American Civil War isn't an area of history I'm especially interested in - I find other larger, more important Nineteenth Century conflicts such as China's Taiping Rebellion and Europe's Napoleonic Wars more interesting). Anyway... just thought I'd mention that and if someone more knowledgeable in this war agrees with Chancellorsville being larger then change it... otherwise keep it as is.

In terms of number of participants, Gettysburg was not the largest, but it did have the highest casualties, which is where the popular superlative usually applies. Another way to look at it, though, is the significant action by so many troops (about 170,000) over the extended period, including the largest artillery barrage until WWI. Most other battles, such as the Seven Pines, where there were in fact more troops, didn't have such high percentages of units in action.We probably would have been better saying "greatest battle", but I'm sure someone would object to that. Hal Jespersen 14:05, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
8.000 - 10.000 people died in the Battle of Celaya. So Gettysburg may have been the largest battle of the US Civil war, it was not the largest battle ever in North America. (apart from Celaya it may very well be possible that also more people died in some battles during the Spanish conquest of the Americas) Mixcoatl 16:08, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You should update the article on Celaya if you have casualty figures beyond the 4,000 mentioned there now. Gettysburg had 51,000 casualties and was a 3-day battle that saw over 170,000 men fighting in huge infantry, cavalry, and artillery engagements. And the Spanish Conquest probably did kill more, but it was hardly a single battle. Hal Jespersen 16:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) BTW, reading the article http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blbloodandsilverprm4.htm, it says "Celaya was the largest land battle fought in North America since the American Civil War." Hal Jespersen 16:32, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[1] says 10.000 death. Apparently the exact number is unsure, therefore I'll change it into "The Battle of Gettysburg was possibilly the largest battle ever conducted in North America,". Mixcoatl 17:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) 17:03, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
That sounds a little weak to me--like we're just saying it's a possibility. Certainly, by some criteria, it was easily the largest battle. How about something like "In many ways, it was the largest battle ever conducted in North America..." Then later, we should explain what makes it the largest. Shoaler 17:31, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
According to the article Siege of Tenochtitlan this battle included at least 230.000 units (150.000+80.000) and possibly up to 500.000 units. Also I count 120.000 deaths. While it is not clear if they were all fighting, in my opinion it gives it more rights to be called 'largest battle of North-America' then the battle of Gettysburg, provided all data is correct. I will not touch the page but in my opinion somebody should change the phrase 'was the largest battle ever fought' to something more specific like 'was one of the largest battles ever fought' and include the siege of Tenochtitlan as a reference somewhere in the article.--Hardscarf 21:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, OK. I never thought to go back that far. I'll fix it. Hal Jespersen 23:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Third Day

I would like to see more of the details of Pickett's charge moved to the Pickett page. Certainly, the reference to the copse of trees and such belong there. Amorrow 20:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

The first answer to such requests should always be "You are welcome to edit Wikipedia pages yourself." If you are not in a hurry, I have some general Gettysburg maintenance on my to-do list. In a nutshell, the main Battle of Gettysburg article is both too long and too short. It needs to have rich, expanded details in separate articles (as Pickett's Charge is now, although improvements are needed) and the main article pruned down a bit. Comments on my approach are welcome. Hal Jespersen 21:51, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

After spending a lot of time on the new map in Pickett's Charge, I see that the map in this article needs to be corrected. I will do so very soon. Hal Jespersen 14:21, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Updates done on both these issues. It is really remarkable how different the maps are in history books. I consulted six or seven books in doing this map on Pickett's Charge and they all have substantial differences. Hal Jespersen 19:53, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization

As I have been editing Gettysburg-related articles, new ones keep popping up. Today, I encountered Devil's Den and Angle (battle) and also put some time into improving Battle of Little Round Top. I have a plan for reorganizing the articles on this lengthy battle and would appreciate comments from those interested. I suggest that the basic Battle of Gettysburg article be shortened slightly and better use can be made of subsidiary articles. Here is what I propose and I plan to work on these as time permits (as you can see some of these have not even been started):

Hal Jespersen 01:05, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Update: all pages shown above are complete, except the ECF article was named Battle of Gettysburg, Third Day cavalry battles and includes SCF. Hal Jespersen 15:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

    • Ginnie Wade -- I am at Gettysburg now. Her tombstone, her death site tour, and all the literature here say that Jennie (or "Ginnie") Wade, was 20 at death, not 22. AaronCBurke 14:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Day 2/Little Round Top/Chamberlain "leading" Charge?

The latest changes made to this article state that Chamberlain led the bayonet charge on LRT. I have issues with this position. (Referenced over at Joshua Chamberlain per Hlj's remarks) What is the community consensus on this issue? (I apologize if I'm taking a small issue and blowing it up, but we're currently lacking agreement between these articles and I can be a bit nitpicky about making sure that continuity is achieved). --Martin Osterman 02:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I missed that one, I guess. See my discussion in Talk:Little Round Top. I think someone has proliferated too many LRT/Chamberlain/20th articles to keep track of this. Hal Jespersen 15:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'd seen it and I'd seen your edits over at Joshua Chamberlain, and I didn't want to edit the changes out pre-emptively until I'd heard from you and others what the word was on this. lol --Martin Osterman 18:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template:main headers (and other see article links)

These should be formalised to meet the standard format as possible, IMO. I have removed some of the Template:main templates from the subpages because I feel that the parent article qualifier should be part of an assertive definition. Feel free to revert me if anyone disagrees, I won't protest. -- Natalinasmpf 02:35, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shoes

I know for a fact that the first sparks that started this battle was because Confederate soldiers ventured up into Union lines to see if they could get some better shoes. I'm not sure where this information could go into the article, but I have you feeling that one of the maintainers could add it in. I don't have a source for this information yet, but I'll look through some websites and books to see if I can find anything. If you need to get in touch with me the quickest way would to be leaving a note on my talk page. RENTASTRAWBERRY FOR LET? röck 00:54, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I guess you deleted because you found the answer in the article? I personally have severe doubts about the shoe story, but it's an enduring myth. Hal Jespersen 01:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

What's with all the EXAMPLE IMAGES down at the bottom? That's really nice to look at.

[edit] The line about carbines

I suggest a change in the First Day descriptions to show that Buford's men had Sharps Breechloaders, not carbines. In fact, the carbines weren't a major force in the war until 1864. Buford's men had the advantage of reloading behind cover, whereas Confederate troops had to reload standing up (you can see this in the movie, believe it, or not...Buford's troops are seen, very briefly, packing the loads into the breeches of their Sharps muskets behind the fence on Seminary ridge). The repeating carbines were absent.

TheKurgan 18:28, 16 April 2006 (UTC)The Kurgan, 16 April 2006, 14:10

PS. I made the edit myself, but it was changed back for some strange reason.

I have checked a few sources and they carried Sharps M1859 breechloading carbines. This level of detail is more appropriate in the lengthy subarticle Battle of Gettysburg, First Day, which is where I moved it. Hal Jespersen 21:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decisive victory?

I am a little worried about the designation of this battle as a decisive victory. While it was a great Union victory, and one that marked the last Confederate offensive into the North, contemporaries-especially Southerners-assigned more importance to the fall of Vicksburg. Gettysburg was viewed as a defeat, but not a particularly terrible one. It only acquired its legendary status after the Civil War. The relative tactical stalemate bears this out; a battle in the nineteenth century that lasted three days and saw comparable casualties cannot really be thought of as "decisive." I firmly believe it should be changed to simply say "Union victory," and as I recall that's what it used to read earlier.UberCryxic 19:43, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Lincoln certainly was pushing for a truly decisive victory, one that would essentially wreck Lee's army. Meade at least delivered a victory at Gettysburg, something rare for his many predecessors. That being said, a large number of contemporaries (particularly in the North), did see Gettysburg as decisive (often in combination with the fall of Vicksburg), even in the days immediately following the battle. David McConaughy and other local leaders began the almost unheard of task of buying parts of the battlefield to commemorate it for posterity. Scott Mingus 21:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Scott, certainly what you are stating is true, but I suppose our divergence comes in interpretation and how much importance we assign to the facts you have given. Northerners identified Vicksburg as more important than Gettysburg, and Southerners overwhelmingly recognized it as such. I believe this article used to state "Union victory" at one point, but I don't know who changed it, when, or why. On top of perceptions, there are the military aspects to consider. I don't think anyone has much of an argument to label this battle as "decisive." Giving Gettysburg this title is a firm injustice to the likes of Cannae, Austerlitz, or Agincourt.UberCryxic 05:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I have no objection to removing the word "decisive." This is one of those cases where casual Wikipedia editors like to change a word or two in an article and it is not worth the time to fight them about it. I believe people here use the term "decisive victory" to mean "clear-cut victory," one in which there is little dispute about the victor. It is not meant to be a synonym for "strategic victory" as far as I can tell. In general, however, I pay little attention to the contents of these battle boxes, other than to correct substantive factual errors when I notice them. Hal Jespersen 00:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I would be very worried if that's how the term was used. Typically, decisive victories must have some sort of political and military effects. Both would be nice, but they are not required; Blenheim was a striking victory but produced no real political aftershocks. However, a battle that has lacks military superiority (read: tactical superiority) should definitely not be thought of as decisive. The central aspect of any battle is physical contact through a variety of means, and whenever we evaluate battles, that has to be the first thing at the back of our minds. This Union victory does not seem impressive (it is not, in fact) when analyzed from this perspective. How relevant this is depends on whether or not you buy this perspective, but it looks reasonable. Decisive battles should involve a marked level of tactical differences.UberCryxic 05:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, to your point, there are considerable letters written by Rebel soldiers in the days after that battle that still reflect considerable optimism, in fact, even arrogance at times, that Gettysburg had been but a minor setback. Spin, for sure, but there aren't many outside of Pickett's Division and its supports that truly felt whipped. One of the many reasons that the AoP was so cautious in pursuing Lee was that his army was still quite, quite dangerous, despite its heavy losses. I'm OK with removing "decisive." Scott Mingus 12:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok so am I. Let's wait like two days (until May 27) before we remove it though, just to give people who might challenge our thinking enough time. After the 27th, if "decisive" is put back in, it will be reverted and people will be redirected to the talk page.UberCryxic 17:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

I suggest adding a link to the description of the echelon formation. I sugest going more in-depth for each day drawing for info from the articles for each specific day. Perhaps we should include more info on the aftermath mabey you want to include picture of the generals George Meade and Robert E. Lee.

I added a link for echelon. The detailed battle descriptions in separate articles for each day are kept separate so that the main article can be of reasonable size--see WP:SIZE. The generals' photos are actually in Gettysburg Campaign, the parent of this article. Hal Jespersen 14:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Positions held on second day?

"Across the battlefield, despite significant losses, the Union defenders held their positions." This seems to be a significant gilding of events. Although the Cemetery Ridge line was held, the Union left was forced out of their advanced positions, retiring on the ridge. Perhaps the sentence should be rephrased? --Jumbo 00:50, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

In general, the statement is essentailly true, as the Confederates failed to significantly break the Union lines. The Federal left was indeed forced back from the Peach Orchard, Devil's Den, Stony Hill, Rose Farm, etc., bur reformed new lines roughly parallel to the old one, and mirroring much of Sickles' morning position. A small part of the entrenchments on Culp's Hill were lost as well.Scott Mingus 00:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
The Union held their lines, not their positions. I think that the difference is a crucial one, because if Sickles had kept to the positions assigned to him along Cemetery Ridge, I don't believe that the second day would have been quite so exciting as it turned out to be. The Confederate assault would very likely have been repulsed with far less trouble and confusion. The use of the word "positions" implies that fixed positions were held, and this was not the case. --Jumbo 05:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed - this is a better word than positions. Scott Mingus 15:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FLAG

ok retards whoever keeps changing the Stainless banner to the Stars and bars STOP the Stainless banner was the Flag of the Confedracy as of May 1, 1863 - march 4, 1865 so leave it alone Gettysburg was fought during its use —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Griffjam (talk • contribs) .

One, practice civility. Two, the correct flag is the ensign, which was instituted May 26, 1863. It is not the stainless banner. Yanksox 18:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Right on may 26, 1863 which is not the stars and bars (Googleyii 16:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

  • DUH!!!!! Well, actually the battle flag is not the ensign that's just the official flag of the Confederacy. But, I think we want to use an official flag as opposed to a battle one, which is actually the more known about one. Yanksox (talk) 16:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Why are the flags there at all? It's not the norm for battleboxes.
—wwoods 00:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I think this started at the main American Civil War page. Perhaps the next step is tiny photos of the commanders and pie charts of the casualties. :-) I would be happy to see them deleted if a few other reviewers chime in about it. I hate to get in the middle of Confederate flag issues. Hal Jespersen 14:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Personally. I find them annoying in articles on battles—wars and campaigns, fine, but battles no. Scott Mingus 15:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes and Menu

Three changes today.

  1. I footnoted the article, which was way more work than you'd think it would be. But now that that's done, I would like to ask that all future substantive edits provide citations using this style.
  2. As part of number 1, I rewrote the recent edit about capturing blacks and replaced it with a secondary source, rather than a primary source that I am not able to find anywhere.
  3. I have introduced a menu of navigation across all of the Gettysburg articles. If you have any proposed edits to this template, please read its Talk page before making your changes. Thanks. This is similar in style to {{American Civil War Menu}} and the only reason I did it is because Gettysburg has so many articles associated with it. I do not recommend that this practice be followed for any other Civil War battle.

Hal Jespersen 00:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

All of the major subarticles in this series are now footnoted. Hal Jespersen 22:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggest a Good Article Nom

I dropped by this article and I'm very impressed. Aside from an overlong lead WP:LEAD, it is a natural candidate for Good Article status. I think that could be fixed by moving the second paragraph down to the first day section. If someone would like to have me do it, I'll nominate the article. --CTSWyneken(talk) 11:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The second paragraph is a summary of the background to the battle. If it is not relevant to the intro, it should be removed, not moved. (I would recommend keeping it as is.) Although technically the lead is longer than recommended (5 short paragraphs vs. 3-4), it is because the three-day battle naturally divides itself into three paragraphs. Besides, this is the intro to a suite of subarticles that is over 200K of material, so 15 sentences seems reasonable (to me). Hal Jespersen 17:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that our reviewers are likely to view five as a problem. Since I've weighed in on it, I'm going to have to recuse myself from it. (Probably should anyway; I've researched my wife's ancestors, who lost one son in the Peach Orchard). Anyway, my thought it that the lead in to the battle could go below under the first day. With a little tweaking, there's only four paragraphs, then. Just a thought. --CTSWyneken(talk) 17:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decisive?

To those who like to edit the battle box and say this was a decisive victory, please cut it out. I have recorded general guidance on these victory adjectives in User:Hlj/adjectives. Two specific points on this battle:

  1. Although Gettysburg was the decisive point in the Gettysburg Campaign, it is deceptive to the average reader to summarize the battle as "decisive" without further qualification because he or she might assume that it was the decisive point in the war. As demonstrated in the article Turning point of the American Civil War, there is no agreement among historians that that was the case.
  2. To those who believe that item number 1 represents only my personal point of view, that is possibly true. However, labeling the battle as decisive is also POV. Because of Wikipedia's policy (WP:NPOV), we can deal with these disputes on POV in one of two ways: citing both ("Decisive/indecisive Union victory") or citing neither, allowing the text of the article to explain. I recommend the latter.

Hal Jespersen 19:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with the others. It is not POV - it is well established historical fact that it was a decisive victory. Claiming this is POV is, in my haughty opinion, Wikilawyering; it would be just as POV to claim it's a victory at all. If you can find a source anywhere that says it's not decisive, I think that would be a good reason to take it out. My source is here (Sometimes about.com is a Wiki mirror, but in this case, it's not; the author is even listed). The quotation probably should stay. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 21:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I am amused that you can take a subjective opinion and describe it as a "well-established historical fact." Yes, I have certainly heard some historians use that expression, although I have heard others, such as Gary Gallagher and James McPherson, argue that Gettysburg was important, but not the turning point in the war. Regardless of who is correct, this illustrates that including or omitting "decisive" is POV; there are multiple points of view on this issue. Wikipedia rules say that you have to balance opposing POVs. Perhaps you can offer up a definition for "decisive victory" and we can continue this discussion. We are attempting to create an encyclopedia here, therefore have higher standards of definitions and sources than the webpage you are pointing to may have. If you believe that the battle was decisive, exactly what was decided? The war? The campaign? The fate of Lee's Army? It is because none of these questions have easy answers that I resist the use of superficial adjectives in the battle box of this and the other ACW articles. Hal Jespersen 21:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

You know decisive doesn't neccesarily mean the turning point of the war,rather a turining point.And there's nothing in the article for the turning point of the war where it even suggests it's not important.You must be the only person i've ever come across the suggestive that Gettysburg was not a decisive.In one simple box you don't describe how it was decisive you just state that it was and leave to be explained in the article.Battleboxes are just a summary.Nor do i see how it's POV to describe a battle as decisive.Look,this website as describes it as decisive [2]. Dermo69 22:06, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I looked it up online, and it means something like "turning the war" - something which indeed most historians agree on. I would be happy to say "most historians believe it's decisive." -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 22:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Look guys, I am not trying to be really difficult here. My primary motivation is not strictly about this article, because there are frankly not many battles more decisive than Gettysburg. I watch over hundreds of Civil War battle articles on Wikipedia and try to maintain some degree of uniformity. I am concerned that if hundreds of editors get it into their heads to describe their favorite battles in this imprecise way, we will be left with a lower quality product. It is frankly much simpler for me to say that no articles get these adjectives rather than argue about every individual battle and whether it is a "decisive," "major," "lopsided," "strategic" victory or not.

Now in the case of this particular article, I disagree with the statement that "most historians" believe it's decisive. In the first place, we try to avoid general, unquantifiable statements of that type in Wikipedia. It could be reasonable to say that many historians do, as long as specific examples are cited from reputable secondary sources. (I notice that the NPS website that you are pointing me to is a site written for children and its use of the term decisive applies to the results of the first day's battle, which is actually appropriate because it is discussing whether that first day had a decisive effect on the overall battle--it didn't.) When you use the term decisive for the entire battle, you need to describe what was decided. Gettysburg was decisive in that it ended Lee's campaign and certainly everyone agrees to that. However, there is considerably less agreement that the battle decided the war. I have spoken to a number of very well-known historians and they are reluctant to make such a claim. Zama was decisive. Hastings. Waterloo. Mexico City. Yorktown. Gettysburg is much more arguable, for many reasons. That's why the opening text of the article says that it is "frequently cited as a turning point" and not that it was the turning point. And without an explanation of what was decided specifically, you are doing a disservice to the casual reader who may believe that the Civil War was ended because of the battle of Gettysburg if they don't read the text of the article and simply graze in the battle box.

I have a certain degree of pride of authorship in this article because I wrote almost all of it and I did write all of the subsidiary (first day, second day, Culp's Hill, etc.) articles and drew all of the maps. I would appreciate it if you went along with me on this issue. If you insist, however, on including your one-word change and I can't convince you otherwise, I will need to include a footnote that explains the issues of what "decisive" means and what it does not. I would really prefer to avoid such footnotes and explain the importance of the battle in the text of the article. Hal Jespersen 01:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

It says elsewhere that there were 28,000 casualties on the Confederate side, but here it says 22,000. Inconsistency, anyone?

The article explains that discrepancy. Did you read it or did you simply scan the summary box? Hal Jespersen 20:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Control

This page was briefly locked by an editor to allow edits only from registered users. There was a period of sanity. Then, the lock was lifted. Has anyone counted the 'reverts' from the past week or so? I don't know the policy nor have I seen discussion about errant edits; but, continual fixing like this page needs suggests to me that something in the process needs to change. jmswtlk 14:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed; I'm going to go ahead and semi-protect the article again, with the protection expiring in two days. More people watching this would be helpful; also, see WP:RfPP to request page protection. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First day of battle, figures?

So there is no way of knowing the exact, or even an estimate, of losses on both the Federal and Confederate forces on the first day? --198.254.16.201 20:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Scanning through the article quickly, I don't think it's mentioned; you may wish to try the reference desk or another source for this. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 21:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
See Battle of Gettysburg, First Day#Evening, last sentence, for an estimate. Due to the nature of Army records, tallying up casualties at the end of a battle and tracking regiments that fought 1, 2, or 3 days, such figures are quite difficult to determine accurately. Hal Jespersen 21:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
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